why no airs????

[Cynth]

The term "slow air" does seem to be used differently by different people and it seems as though this is part of the problem. I had thought that the term only applied to instrumental versions of songs sung in the sean-nos tradition. Those songs I don't feel I would be able to play because the idea is, I believe, that they be played as though the instrument were singing in that same tradition. One problem is that even if I hear them sung, I am hearing not the skeleton of the song but the rendition of a particular singer. In many cases I cannot distinguish between the fundamental melody and what that particular singer has done with the song. I could not just copy the singer because that would be taking what belongs to that person and pretending it is my own. If I did find the skeleton of the song and a literal translation (and I have heard that the songs in English would be a good place to begin, as Lee Marsh mentions) so that I would understand how the phrasing in the melody should work, I still would not have the understanding to do justice to that tradition. I believe one might be able to learn, however, given sufficient study, listening and critique from qualified musicians. I am pretty rigid in my feeling that it is not right to mess with that very special tradition. It will dilute it, make it less strong, make it so that anything goes. That's just my feeling. I don't feel it has anything to do with being Irish. It has to do with training. I don't believe the singers just start singing however they feel like. They have worked to learn this very particlar style. They aren't just emoting.

It was pointed out to me in a discussion I cannot find right now that the term "slow air" is used by some important person writing in the past to mean something not as specific as a song from the sean-nos repertoire. So, the term is becoming confusing to me. That said, I think there are a lot of beautiful songs not in the sean-nos repetoire that one could play and have plenty of room for expressiveness. It doesn't seem like it would be appropriate to play them using the more distinctive qualities of some sean-nos singing such as altering the meter or playing many notes for a single syllable, etc. That would not be respecting the sean-nos tradition or the tradition of the more straight forward songs. I guess I would just call these songs "airs" myself, because I still use the term "slow air" for the very particular category of airs from the sean-nos tradition.

I was trying to figure out what sorts of airs to songs I could play. I asked an advanced player if I could, for example, play Down by the Salley Gardens (I don't know if it would be called a ballad or what exactly)in a straight forward way without insulting anyone. He said yes and that it would sound very pleasant. There is also a "slow air" with the same melody and, of course, that would be a more beautiful thing to hear. But it would be ridiculous for me to pretend I could play the melody as a "slow air" in the sean-nos style. I could, however, get a lot of enjoyment by playing the air in an appropriately expressive way.

[Wanderer]

I think we can get too damn precious about this. "Slow airs can only be played by those born into/steeped in the tradition/those who know the words in the native tongue/with an inherited feel/blah blah."

If you were Irish, you'd understand.

But since you're not..it's hopeless.

[Cayden]

I agree with Steve's basic premise that we can get too precious about the issue. And when saying it's genetic things become downright scary I have have quite a lot of Irishmen hear slaughter perfectly fine airs, quite a lot of the natives are totally clueless to what this music is about.
I do think however playing a good slow air requires an intimate knowledge of the song(s) connected to the air, the culture from which these come and if need be the language they are sung in.

And I have heard Jackie Daly sing on more than one occasion and I am sure he knows what his airs are about.

Going all precious on the one side is one thing, denying there's specific knowledge involved when tackling certain tunes successfully is going overboard on the other end.

[amar]

I love playing slow airs, or shall I call them tunes played slowly with feeling?
Anyway, however you want to name them, they are my favorite tunes to play. And I tried to analyze why this is so. And in all honesty, I must say one of the reasons I like playing them is because you don't have to move your fingers at the speed of sound, as with some jigs or reels. I just can't manage to do that (yet) after now having played for about 4 years.

But it is not the only reason, I play airs because they speak to me and touch me more than any other kind of tunes. They touch that special inner spot, when I play the tune, I emerse myself totally into the tune, there is nothing else at the moment.

best, Amar

[GaryKelly]

What is a blinkin' slow air anyway?
Is Danny Boy a slow air?
Eleanor Plunkett?
Bridget Cruise?
Raglan Road?
If you play a tune slowly is it a slow air?

...plays the Glen Cottage Polka no 1 as a slow air superbly.

A 'slow air' or 'air' is a specific tune type, every bit as specific as the terms 'jig', 'reel', 'hornpipe' etc. Think sean nos, an "unaccompanied ‘a capella’ song form with virtually no connection to the modern singing of ballads in pubs".

It isn't a ballad ('Danny Boy') or an O'Carolan composition (Eleanor Plunkett, Bridget Cruise) or a modern song set to older music (Patrick Kavanagh's "Raglan Road"). So no, if you play a tune slowly, it's not a "Slow Air".

Playing the Glen Cottage Polka no.1 slowly may be done superbly, but that doesn't make it a slow air any more than playing The Donegal Mazurka slowly makes it a jig.

The link to the gaelic has been mentioned often, and the quote previously about judging a Fleadh is a good indication... just as a tune has to meet certain criteria to be considered a "jig" or a "reel", a slow air also has its defining characteristics.

[Tony McGinley]

I think we can get too damn precious about this. "Slow airs can only be played by those born into/steeped in the tradition/those who know the words in the native tongue/with an inherited feel/blah blah." Come on now - you can say that about any style of tune in any genre of music. "White men can't play the blues..." - sheesh! It's a hangover from those quasi-mystical types who are prone to posting to IRTRAD who'll have you believe that only dyed-in-the-wool Irishmen whose ancestry goes back thousands of years and who have Guinness in their veins instead of blood can even remotely be regarded as being able to play the tunes. Right - slow airs need a different approach to dance tunes. If it's a song-tune it's definitely good to know the words. But many a slow air either never had words or else they've been lost. So we'd better not play those ones eh! Gawd. You can learn to play slow airs like you can learn to play any other kind of tune, if you're receptive to the particular requirements, and that don't include the need to speak Gaelic. It requires musical sensibilities that can be picked up by that best method of all - listening, listening and listening some more. Then, when you're totally fed up of listening, listen some more.

What is a blinkin' slow air anyway? Is Danny Boy a slow air? Eleanor Plunkett? Bridget Cruise? Raglan Road? If you play a tune slowly is it a slow air? I've heard slow airs that have rhythm and some that don't. In fact, I've heard some both ways. Amhran a Leabhair. Jackie Daly (fabulous slow air player on an instrument not easily given to slow air-playing, and hardly noted for his singing!) plays the Glen Cottage Polka no 1 as a slow air superbly.

We should stop making rules that prevent us from exploring, playing and enjoying the tunes. I would say that as a harmonica player I suppose.

Steve

Bet you feel better now - geting that lot off you chest!!

I would agree with some of your sentiments, and especially
the idea of it being some sort of exclusive club.

However, I would add one comment: I, and I speak with honesty
and humility, (well a little humility any-ways!!) - I have not heard
a slow air being really well played by too many non Celts.

Yes - there are musically fine reproductions of many airs by
many fine non Celt musicians but somehow they lack something,
perhaps the intensity of feeling.

I did a course in African drumming some time ago, and boy
was it fun!!! I learned a great deal about rhythm. After six
months I began to see just how blind and ignorant I was
about the complexity and beauty of African rhythm. If I was
6 years studying - I would not be getting even close to hearing,
let alone being able to play these amazing patterns. I began
to believe it was in the blood, and I did not have it. At least
I got as far as being able to appreciate something which before
I would have considered nothing much more than noise.

Oh! By the way, "Danny Boy" is not Danny Boy, it is the
Derry Air and is a really old air that has been really badly
basterdised down the years! Its hard to listen to it without
hearing the contamination -but it still is one of the most
beautiful and haunting Irish airs.

[SteveShaw]

I think we can get too damn precious about this. "Slow airs can only be played by those born into/steeped in the tradition/those who know the words in the native tongue/with an inherited feel/blah blah."

If you were Irish, you'd understand.

But since you're not..it's hopeless.

Heheh! Get thee to IRTRAD-L!

Steve

[SteveShaw]

I agree with Steve's basic premise that we can get too precious about the issue. And when saying it's genetic things become downright scary I have have quite a lot of Irishmen hear slaughter perfectly fine airs, quite a lot of the natives are totally clueless to what this music is about.
I do think however playing a good slow air requires an intimate knowledge of the song(s) connected to the air, the culture from which these come and if need be the language they are sung in.

And I have heard Jackie Daly sing on more than one occasion and I am sure he knows what his airs are about.

Going all precious on the one side is one thing, denying there's specific knowledge involved when tackling certain tunes successfully is going overboard on the other end.

I forgot you were close to Jackie. I'd love to hear him sing!

I hope you don't think I was denying there's specific knowledge involved or that you think my rant was sour grapes because I'm not Irish (I'm half actually ). The most important point I wanted to make in my post was the one about listening - to get the music under your skin, to get its spirit, not just the notes or even to learn how to ornament. I'm trying to define what can't be defined. I get worried when I hear that, since slow airs derive from sean nos singing therefore you should know the words, otherwise you can't phrase the tune, and you can only do that if you speak Gaelic because it's all lost in translation...well, you're going to exclude an awful lot of wonderful musicians from playing them. By this measure, Jackie Daly needs more than just to know what his airs are about, and maybe he does know more, but even if he doesn't he's still more than good enough at it for me. Anyway, who made up the "rule" that we have to phrase a song air on an instrument exactly as if the words were being sung? I've heard a hundred different versions of "Summertime" played on the harmonica, many of them incredibly soulful and inventive, but you wouldn't want to even begin to try to fit the words to most of them.

Let those who want to explore slow air playing get on with it, say I, whatever their come-froms. Let's not get like that little cohort of crusty old "defenders of the muse" that reside on that other list I keep mentioning, the one beginning with "I.". Leave it up to them and the music would die when they did. Right - I'm off to practise "The Banks of Sullane" now!

Steve

[SteveShaw]

What is a blinkin' slow air anyway?
Is Danny Boy a slow air?
Eleanor Plunkett?
Bridget Cruise?
Raglan Road?
If you play a tune slowly is it a slow air?

...plays the Glen Cottage Polka no 1 as a slow air superbly.

A 'slow air' or 'air' is a specific tune type, every bit as specific as the terms 'jig', 'reel', 'hornpipe' etc. Think sean nos, an "unaccompanied ‘a capella’ song form with virtually no connection to the modern singing of ballads in pubs".

It isn't a ballad ('Danny Boy') or an O'Carolan composition (Eleanor Plunkett, Bridget Cruise) or a modern song set to older music (Patrick Kavanagh's "Raglan Road"). So no, if you play a tune slowly, it's not a "Slow Air".

Playing the Glen Cottage Polka no.1 slowly may be done superbly, but that doesn't make it a slow air any more than playing The Donegal Mazurka slowly makes it a jig.

The link to the gaelic has been mentioned often, and the quote previously about judging a Fleadh is a good indication... just as a tune has to meet certain criteria to be considered a "jig" or a "reel", a slow air also has its defining characteristics.

Hmm. I wonder how many people that had never heard his version of the Glen Cottage before would recognise it as being not a slow air? Incidentally, some of Carolan's tunes may well have had words sung to them at one time.

When the S*ssion members (I think it was them) were asked what their favourite slow air was, a lot said "Raglan Road." Not that I think for one second that that lot have a monopoly of understanding in these matters, but it just goes to show...

Steve

[SteveShaw]

I love playing slow airs, or shall I call them tunes played slowly with feeling?

I play airs because they speak to me and touch me more than any other kind of tunes. They touch that special inner spot, when I play the tune, I emerse myself totally into the tune, there is nothing else at the moment.

best, Amar

Absolutely spot-on, mate. There's scarcely any more that needs saying. The devil take the begrudgers!

Steve

[GaryKelly]

Incidentally, some of Carolan's tunes may well have had words sung to them at one time.

True, like those you quoted. But they're "Planxtys", not 'slow airs'.

From my perspective, it's a matter of definition. A 'slow air' is a specific tune type, as I've said. It's not a tune played slowly or 'wiv feewing' as Bruce Lee would say.

It probably sounds pedantic, but there's a huge difference between a 'slow air' and a 'tune played slowly'.

"Summertime" ain't a "slow air" any more than it's a jig or a reel or a polka. "My Old Man's a Dustman" played slowly isn't a "slow air" either, nor is "99 Red Balloons". There's a pattern forming here, no?

We all know that if a newbie pops up on the board and says something like "Does anyone have the sheet music for the wonderful song called The Kesh jig please?" within moments someone else will be tactfully (or otherwise) pointing out the large and significant difference between a 'song' and a 'tune'.

To play the melody of a ballad slowly and call it a 'slow air' is as incorrect as playing a jig slowly and calling *that* a slow air.

I don't see how folks are perfectly willing to accept terms like jig, reel, hornpipe, mazurka, polka, waltz, slip-jig, slide, march (for example) as defining and categorising a tune, but then won't accept that "slow air" likewise is a specific form.

I hesitate to mention Comhaltas, but since they're generally accepted as guardians of the tradition (at least by themselves) their idea of what does and does not constitute a slow air is probably a good one, as previous posts have alluded to. You won't be winning an All-Ireland in the slow-air category by playing "Donald Where's yer Troosers?" or "Summertime", no matter how slowly or emotionally you play it

[SteveShaw]

Hey Gary, I didn't say that Summertime was a slow air - I just gave it as an example of how a song tune can be effectively interpreted instrumentally without being enslaved by the words. As for Comhaltas they ain't exactly popular with everyone involved in ITM, especially when it comes to judging competitions...

Steve

[GaryKelly]

Hey Gary, I didn't say that Summertime was a slow air - I just gave it as an example of how a song tune can be effectively interpreted instrumentally without being enslaved by the words. As for Comhaltas they ain't exactly popular with everyone involved in ITM, especially when it comes to judging competitions...

Steve

That's why I hesitated to mention them!

And yes, a song's melody can effectively be interpreted instrumentally without being enslaved by the words. No doubt about it. But that's not the original question, the original question relates specifically to 'slow airs', not to 'melodies played slowly'.

Here's something I've noticed about slow airs (real ones) that I've heard played instrumentally, and why I prefer listening to them sung rather than played: A great example, Frankie Gavin playing "Sliabh na mBan" on flute, on his album "Fierce Traditional". His tone is Frankly Incredible (pun intended). Trouble is, he's not content with one 'verse'. By halfway through the 4 minutes and 47 seconds of that track, my initial wonder at his tone and his command of the flute is lost and I'm either fast-forwarding or skipping to the next track. Which is not something I'd be doing if this were a vocal piece, because the 7 verses are different (even though the air or melody might not be).

[Wanderer]

Heheh! Get thee to IRTRAD-L!

Steve

hehe! There's a reason I don't post there

[Tony McGinley]

What is a blinkin' slow air anyway?
Is Danny Boy a slow air?
Eleanor Plunkett?
Bridget Cruise?
Raglan Road?
Steve

Who's arguing, not me!!!

As a matter of interest "Raglan Road"
is a poem my Cavanagh to a traditional
song called, " 'Fainne Gael an Lae'
(The Dawning of the Day) which I
and countless others learned in school.
It was often used as a marching tune.
But also was sung, with much rubato,
as an air. There are several tunes
by that same name.

The first verse went:

Maidin moch do ghabhas amach,
Ar bruach Locha Léin;
An Samhradh teacht's an chraobh len'ais,
Is ionrach te ón ngréin.

One morning early I went out
On the shore of Lough Leinn
The leafy trees of summertime,
And the warm rays of the sun.

AFAIK the term "planxty" refers specifically
to O'Carolan's music, and specifically to a
tune which was a dedication to an individual,
usually a benefactor. Hence the term "planxty"
has a name as a suffix. The planxty itself could
be in dance time or a slower air.