a cosmic perspective on waiting lists

[socar52]

Why, thank you, rama. I float around here from time to time. I suppose my first post should have been introductory rather than ranting, but it seemed like a good place to start. By the way, what makes a person over qualified to be a flutemaker?

[rama]

Why, thank you, rama. I float around here from time to time. I suppose my first post should have been introductory rather than ranting, but it seemed like a good place to start. By the way, what makes a person over qualified to be a flutemaker?

sheer laziness and an appreciation for itm!




seriously, olwell never took a down payment from me, nor did he promise a delivery date. he said he would call when he was ready to make a flute for me and would ask for a down payment at that point in time
and he also anticipated it would take a few years before he called.
no binding committement was made. then one day after about 10yrs...it happened.

on the other hand..

... wilkes warned me he had a long wait list and was reluctant to take any more orders. i insisted, so he had me send him a down payment. he wrote back to explain he had xx number of orders ahead of mine and gave an estimated wait 8-10 years. a couple more yrs. and counting...

....murray asked for a down payment of 5% and estimated 1 year wait.
it's been well beyond 1 year and i called him a few times. he has not been able to deliver for various reasons although he keeps promising he will.

this is life on planet earth. i wish i could escape it's surly bonds.

in my little universe, i am king. but on uranus i am just another 'butt' head.

[jim stone]

I suppose that, at some point, we might begin to
tell folks about what to expect from particular
flutesmyths, especially those who take deposits
and give time estimates, so that they will have
an idea of what they may be getting into before
they leap. I've talked to people who have sad
stories to tell, and not just about keyed flutes.

I agree that the caveat about 'variable times
and things taking longer than expected' applies here;
heaven knows craftspeople can't be expected to
always live up to estimates. But some waits
are too long for the caveat to plausibly apply.

[chas]

I suppose that, at some point, we might begin to
tell folks about what to expect from particular
flutesmyths, especially those who take deposits
and give time estimates, so that they will have
an idea of what they may be getting into before
they leap. I've talked to people who have sad
stories to tell, and not just about keyed flutes.

I agree that the caveat about 'variable times
and things taking longer than expected' applies here;
heaven knows craftspeople can't be expected to
always live up to estimates. But some waits
are too long for the caveat to plausibly apply.

For the most part, if one is willing to be patient and search the archives, realistic estimates for most makers are on the list. I've known whether or not to trust the times makers have quoted me for all the flutes I've ordered. Of the several flutes I've ordered, I haven't gotten every one in the week or month I expected it, but I've had no surprises. Some makers are like clockwork, some offer estimates that are best cases, and some offer estimates that you have to tack months onto. Mr. Olwell didn't offer me an estimate for either the price or wait time for a keyed flute.

I've also learned to be nice to the makers. They're just like anyone else, liking to know you're interested in and respect their wares and that you're really looking forward to getting their flutes. But it's easy to cross the line into being a pest, and difficult to know whey you're becoming one.

It all still comes down to, do you want one maker's flute badly enough to put up with his waiting list or idiosyncrasies? If not, don't order a flute from him. If so, you just need to put up with the wait as best you can, doing whatever you can (which might be nothing whatsoever) to endear yourself to the maker, and nothing to piss him off. If maybe, then you should do more research and find out how good the maker's time estimates are, what they are, and whether he's prone to whimsy.

[Jumbuk]

But for those makers who have developed a demand for their product, yet spend a lot of time away from their shop galavanting around, the wait time increases exponentially, and the general flute buying public begans to develop a less than positive opinion of them. I'm trying to avoid using the word, "lazy."

In Australia, the wait time for celtic harps and concertinas is similar to the wait for flutes, probably longer. But before you think the makers are slacking off instead of working in their workshops, consider this: they need an income of some kind. Many instrument makers are teachers or play in bands. Even if they are not, they need to be at the festivals to display and promote their instruments. Make no mistake, I am sure most makers would rather finish instruments in shorter times so they can get paid earlier! That they are more committed to producing a fine instrument for buyers should be something we value.

Having said that, in any commercial operation, it is silly to promise what you can't deliver. My experience though is that when a maker says 2 years or 4 years or whatever, they are being realistic and can deliver within that time.

[jim stone]

Charlie, your post is brimming over with good sense, however
I'm not sure that the archives actually do contain enough of this info.
though some of it is there, for sure. I say this from my own
experience; I think I've read a great deal of what we've posted
here from the beginning of the fluteboard. I suppose people
can ask by private message the opinions of those of us
who have been around longest or who plainly know
the most about such things. I would not count myself. Jim

[chas]

Good point, Jim. I suspect I've gotten a good bit of additional info via PM's or emails to/from those I know to have experience with specific makers. Most folks are quite willing to share their experiences, and, of course, one is a lot more likely to find out any negatives privately.

[GaryKelly]

10 years is a long time. My biggest fears about placing an order for a flute with such a waiting list is 1) I may very well die before its completion and 2) worse, the maker may croak before even beginning work on it. So I don't (order one, that is). Waiting almost 9 months for a Hamilton nearly drove me up the wall.

In interplanetary terms, I think the moon represents the point at which my imaginary kids start screaming "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?!!"

[MikeC]

10 Years?! I have a hard time waiting 10 seconds for a page to load.

[tin tin]

So, hypothetically, let's say you dream of a keyed flute from maker X, but the waiting list for keyed flutes is totally interplanetary, do you:

a) suck it up and order anyway
b) order a keyed flute from a maker with a shorter list
c) order a keyless flute from maker X?

[jim stone]

Another option, I suppose, is to look for used keyed flutes, either
contemporary or vintage, to appear wherever
these are listed.

[SoTX]

d) Decide that you're on the wrong end of the deal and spend your money on a good lathe?

Seriously, I don't understand the economics here. Anything for which there is an interplanetary waiting list would appear to be underpriced.

-- Don

[feadog39]

I am a happy owner of a six keyed olwell, which i received only a few short weeks ago. It was about a ten year wait. I was lucky in that I had the good forturne of acquiring a 8-keyed hammy which served me very well in the mean time. But the olwell was nevertheless was a long time coming. Indeed, it is about everything i've ever dreamed of in a flute. And more.

My advice to anyone right now is: don't wait for the keys. It will take you ten years to become decent on the flute in the first place (and by decent i am referring not simply to being able to play the flute but being about to play the Music). Get the best possible keyless you can afford right away, put yourself on the waiting list for this or that keyed, and get on your merry way. If you're serious, life's too short not to have an olwell-quality instrument in your hands as soon as possible. Plus until you can play steadily and with control the keys (with perhaps the exception of the C natural) will get in your way or be a distraction, in my opinion.

Of course I realize that it is easy enough for me to be calm and circumspect about all this now that I have the Hattori Hanzo of keyed flutes in my possession. But this is how I've come to think of all this waiting business in retrospect.