Best way to start learning music theory?

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 4:34 pm

On 2002-07-30 18:03, DrGiggles wrote:
The question of why do you want to learn music theory is in no way a discouagement to do so. Please don't think of it as such. Any willingness to learn is always a synergistic advancement to the whole.

However...

Ahh, there's the help I need. See, I didn't know those differences. Okay, based on the options you listed, which I understand do not represent the entire spectrum of possibilities, here's what interests me:

Are you learning it to improve your whistle playing? If so, you'll want to learn ear-training and interval recognition as well as theories in synchopation and some Music History.

Are you learning it to be a better improvisional player? Then you'll want to study Harmony Theory, Progression Theory and Basic Composition.

So with that in mind, now what? BTW I do currently play by ear, can recognize the notes of the staff but not everything else on it (never quite got time signatures down in my ill fated piano lessons) and want to improve my music reading as well.

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:09 pm

Ahh... Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Now tell your friends to put their pitchforks and torches away.

So, what we're looking for is more of a hands-on approach to theory as opposed to a cold-facts approach.

Check out this website: http://www.mibac.com

They have a very good rudimentary hands-on theory instruction software. Download the demo and see if it's what you're looking for. The software is about $100, but it's very clear on the fundamentals of music theory and ear-training.

Hope this helps,
Frank

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:25 pm

Another series of books/software (if you can find them) that you might want to look into is called Essentials of Music Theory. I have a copy of the book, but I understand that a supplement has been added for computer.

It's pretty good, and will give you a good fundamental understanding of modes, time signatures, and the such.

However, remember, while you're learning all this: It's called theory for a reason.

Don't let it take the joy out of playing and listening. Listen to other players, ask questions, use what you like, and disregard what you don't. Most of all, let the music be in you... it's a sad world when people lose their tunes.

clarinetwhistler · Post by **clarinetwhistler** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:28 pm

My sincere apologies.

I don't have a pitchfork, but I am gently setting my printing calculator back on my desk. (I think I've been working too hard on these quarterly taxes--temporary insanity.)

WyoBadger · Post by **WyoBadger** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:43 pm

You guys are cool. Great to have so many music teachers on the board.

Anyway, Beth, if none of the above ideas work, I'd be glad to show what a fifth is next time we see each other. (for starters, it refers to the distance between two notes on a scale, or less properly between two chords in a progression) I find that some of these things are hard to explain through mail, but easy to show. But maybe that's just me.

By the way, (Giggles, you might be amused by this, too) last year I have my fifth graders doing college intro level music theory, mostly chord progressions, and composing their own music. Not only did they get it, they loved it. My secret? I never told them they were learning music theory.

The basics really aren't that hard, especially for someone with your innate "ear." You'll pick it right up.

May I echo...whose suggestion was it?...to try to find a private teacher, or audit a college course. Both require money and time, but no one said it would be easy.

Good luck--Tom

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 4:37 am

Hey Beth,

you sound like me - I find pretty much everything about life, the universe & everything interesting, to a degree.

Birds, trees, wildflowers, music, history, geography, ghosts, World War II, biplanes in WWI, pets, particle physics, cooking, England's Navy at the time of Nelson & Napoleon, renewable energy resources, etc etc, are just some of the subjects I have books or information about in the house.

The web page you linked just about does it for me, I don't need to get too involved in how music works, I'd far rather just play!

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 8:45 am

On 2002-07-31 00:43, WyoBadger wrote:
last year I have my fifth graders doing college intro level music theory, mostly chord progressions, and composing their own music. Not only did they get it, they loved it. My secret? I never told them they were learning music theory. The basics really aren't that hard, especially for someone with your innate "ear." You'll pick it right up.

I believe it. Children have an amazing ability to learn things quickly. I really wish I had the patience to teach grade school. I bet it's a very rewarding experience. I've substituted for High School band for two weeks, and that was enough to give me the jitters.

-Frank

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DrGiggles on 2002-07-31 10:52 ]</font>

ysgwd · Post by **ysgwd** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:11 am

Beth,
Almost two decades ago I set forth on a lonely journey to teach myself some music theory because I couldn't find any other affordable way. This was many years before I got online. I re-invented lots of wheels. What all these people are suggesting now would have saved me years of time spent trying to see connections between the fragments of theory I picked up from various incomplete sources. I did find a program for my Mac called Practica Musica. This was great for ear training and understanding key signatures and the basics of melody composition and chord accompaniment. I bet there is a much updated version of this program for PC now.
Another source I highly recommend, perhaps once you are more solid about keys and intervals, is something Thom at the Whistle Shop has: Celtic Back-up for All Instrumentalists. I found this book to be better than anything else I've seen on modal music and simplifying how to find appropriate chords and such. It is so enriching to understand what the guitarist has to go through to accompany us on our whistles.
Lisa

dkehoe · Post by **dkehoe** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 1:41 pm

I prefer to think of a fifth as a unit of whisky. A perfect fifth is one that's full.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 2:08 pm

On 2002-07-31 15:41, dkehoe wrote:
I prefer to think of a fifth as a unit of whisky. A perfect fifth is one that's full.

It sounds like we should make that a diminished fifth.

Steve

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:14 pm

On 2002-07-31 15:41, dkehoe wrote:
I prefer to think of a fifth as a unit of whisky. A perfect fifth is one that's full.

On 2002-07-31 16:08, SteveK wrote:
It sounds like we should make that a diminished fifth.

Whiskey = the Devil's Fire-water
Tritone = the Devil's Interval

Both can be described as a 5th... coincidence?

Since this thread started on the subject of Music Theory, did you know...

The tritone (augmented 4th/diminished 5th) was known in the middle ages as the "Devil in Music" (Diabolus in Musica)? It was considered one of the most dissonant sounds ever heard (I dunno, I think a minor 2nd pounded on a piano would give me more of a headache...).

The Tritone is the note exactly half-way between the octave.

What I find most ironic is that that the 4th and 5th surrounding this lil Devil are considered the most "resolved" interval and thus named "Perfect" (This is not really why it's called a perfect interval...but we can stretch a bit.)

Proof that when you walk the middle-road you're a dissonant, but those of us who are a little off are Perfect.

...okay, I'll shut up now. :roll:

fatveg · Post by **fatveg** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 6:18 pm

On 2002-07-30 15:30, avanutria wrote:
Why? Well...why not? (I am like this. This is the Interesting Hobby of the Month, apparently. If I still have interest in it in September, it makes the "keep" list. Sometime when you have a few hours I'll give you a list of my wide variety of Interesting Hobbies that never made the cut.)

Hey -- someone else whose brain works like mine (let me guess -- ENTP?).
I know a little music theory, I was a mathematician in a previous life and that helps. I think its fascinating, and I'd say go for it!

the_instrument_player · Wed Jul 31, 2002 6:49 pm

LOL I'm just sitting here laughing as I read all this discussion about music theory. Especially all that about the tritone. LOL I am currently working toward a degree in music (which is, I'm convinced, one of the most insane things a person could ever do! lol) and so I just find all the talk on music theory humorous. But, if you want to learn, go for it!! I find music theory pretty fascinated (well, up until I got into the 20th century stuff, and then it gets a bit ridiculous!) and I think it's cool to understand more about what we play. I may be a little partial since I teach lots of piano lessons and work with tons of kids on theory, but I think piano is a great way to learn theory! I think it is one of the most visible ways to understand theory, because it is all laid out right in front of you. If you can find a good teacher who is into the newer approach to piano pedagogy and will teach out of the method books that include theory, that would be a great way to learn. You obviously already know some things about music, so try one of the adult piano courses. Lots of piano methods include great theory books or sections right along with the lesson books.
Just a few thoughts. =) Have fun!!

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 7:08 pm

On 2002-07-31 20:18, fatveg wrote:
On 2002-07-30 15:30, avanutria wrote:
Why? Well...why not? (I am like this. This is the Interesting Hobby of the Month, apparently. If I still have interest in it in September, it makes the "keep" list. Sometime when you have a few hours I'll give you a list of my wide variety of Interesting Hobbies that never made the cut.)

Hey -- someone else whose brain works like mine (let me guess -- ENTP?).
I know a little music theory, I was a mathematician in a previous life and that helps. I think its fascinating, and I'd say go for it!

I haven't done one of those profiles in a long time, but I think I was INFP actually

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:28 pm

On 2002-07-31 20:49, the_instrument_player wrote:
I find music theory pretty fascinated (well, up until I got into the 20th century stuff, and then it gets a bit ridiculous!) and I think it's cool to understand more about what we play.

Ridiculous??? What's rediculous about putting wooden blocks on the strings of a baby grand so that the the timbre and tone of the instrument changes? What's ridiculous about having Sax and Clarinet players remove their mouthpieces and squeak in the middle of a piece? (PDQ Bach did it first, and it was great!)

I agree that micro-tonal music as well as some of the "concepts" introduced in the 20's century are a little "different", but not rediculous.

I should mention that I played a Concert that had a piece called "Water Music" that required the squeaking of "Rubber Duckies" at appropriate times.

-Frank