Do I really need a teacher?

[In The Woods]

Hello, everybody.

Since I got my Tipple low D about ten days ago, I've been having fun trying to get some kind of flute sound out of it, and every now and again I succeed. Other times, the sound is there but weak and breathy. Since I've learned not to expect rapid progress on any musical instrument, (in my case), should I just keep on going up and down the scale, trying simple tunes, reading the Grey Larsen book (on order from The Whistle Shop) or should I go out and look for a teacher?

Right now I'm paying for piping lessons, and I can't afford flute lessons, too. When I do play, I feel comfortable, no strain or pain, so I think I'm holding the instrument right. What has been other people's experience about teaching themselves a new musical instrument if they have experience (15 yrs) on another one?

Thanks to all who reply.

With best regards

Steve Mack

[chas]

Right now I'm paying for piping lessons, and I can't afford flute lessons, too. When I do play, I feel comfortable, no strain or pain, so I think I'm holding the instrument right. What has been other people's experience about teaching themselves a new musical instrument if they have experience (15 yrs) on another one?

Steve, I think you have answered your question -- you're paying for piping lessons, and can't afford piping lessons and flute lessons. If piping is more important, definitely keep up on those lessons. Also, you're comfortable and having fun with your flute -- that's what's most important. You may get to a point at which you're frustrated with the flute, or you're satisfied with your progress on the pipes, at which point you might want to consider scaling back the piping lessons and starting flute lessons.

Peruse the archives of this board. There's loads of stuff you might find useful, and it's free. Nothing is as useful as a (good) teacher giving you realtime feedback, but you'll definitely benefit from some of the stuff posted here.

I've benefitted greatly from lessons with a couple of good teachers. I probably made more progress in the few weeks between my first and second flute lessons than I had in the year or so I'd been playing before them. The exercises my teacher gave me were simple, and have been discussed extensively here (harmonics, long notes, short notes, practicing in front of a mirror). I think the accountability of having a teacher you answer to is very important, too.

[daiv]

its a toss up. there is no real rule about whether or not you need lessons. at first you really just gotta try everything to see what works for you. after you get comfortable, maybe see if you could stop taking piping for a week or two and take one or two flute lessons just to get right on track. if you could afford it, to have a teacher at first would be awesome, but its not essential.

but chas is right, if you dont want to sacrifice even one piping lesson now, then dont! you dont TECHNICALLY need anything. there are some great players that taught themselves, and there are some great players that studied under someone else for years. it just depends on how you want to go about it and what fits into your budget and schedule.

[mutepointe]

dear steve:

yes, it's possible to teach yourself how to play instruments. i've had brief informal lessons on the piano and guitar, taught myself how to play the harmonica, pennywhistle and irish flute. i only saw one person play a pennywhistle in person one time before i chose that instrument. i'm the only person i know who plays the irish flute. i would love to have a teacher. lack of money is a problem with me too, lack of opportunity is the big problem. besides, with all the money you save not paying for lessons, you can buy more instruments and teach yourself those instruments too. i just wish i could play all the instruments at one time. playing with myself would rock! he he.

mutepointe

[talasiga]

In the woods - perhaps you should call yourself "in the PVC".

I "taught myself" flute about 35 years ago with a bansuri. I already knew simple system fingerings having played whistle prior to that. Though I learned the blowing technique on a bamboo folk flute I have had little problem adjusting to wooden flute and the odd occasion when I have picked up Boehm. So here is some advice if you like:-

Start off on your Tipple D by playing the note that is easiest to play consistently. When you can play that note in one breath at least for 30 seconds, start improvising by playing whatever you want ad hoc BUT always coming back to that note which you should hold as long as you can. Don't think music too much. Think more fun. Pretend shakuhachi. Make sure your improvised play works down to the notes lower than the one that you are comfortable with. Once you've made friends with this first note (whichever one that may be) the others will slowly come over to your side.

Give it another 20 days with some daily fun 5 times a week.

We are all teachers and students. It is not a question of need but a drive to give and receive.

[Unseen122]

I taught myself. Persoanlly I never felt the need for a teacher so I never bothered and when I started playing Sessions i had no problem.

[AaronMalcomb]

While instruction is always beneficial, it's a question of priorities.

I'm in a similar situation. Piping (GHB) is my priority. As much time as I'd like to spend on learning tunes on the flute or travelling to flute workshops and lessons, it takes time I need to work on solo and band tunes and all the travelling I do for competitions and practices.

I've learned the bulk of my flute playing on my own with only a few lessons. Piping has propelled my progress in some ways but hindered it in others. It gets frustrating but my piping falling behind would be even more frustrating.

Piping will give you shortcuts in learning the flute but not as many as a teacher. It really boils down to how much of a priority the flute is. If piping is still your main priority learning to cope with the frustrations down the road will be an important lesson.

Cheers,
Aaron

[bradhurley]

You can definitely teach yourself, but it pays to have lessons at some point, even if just a workshop or two with an experienced traditional player. I got some tips early on from a few flute players but mainly taught myself. I picked up a lot of bad habits that way (espcially because I had been playing uilleann pipes before the flute and played the flute as if it was a chanter) and wasn't playing in a "flutey" style. I used way too much ornamentation, the melody was getting lost, and there was no lift in my playing. I thought I was pretty good, but of course I had no clue; when I listen to tapes of myself made during that period I cringe! After about 10 years of that I had a week-long workshop with Jack Coen, followed the next year by a 4-hour workshop with Catherine McEvoy, and I realized that I pretty much needed to start over from scratch. Once I went through that painful process, which took several years, my flute playing became much better.

I think at the beginning there's a lot of room for exploration and self-teaching, since the process of getting a good tone is a personal one and varies from individual to individual. But a few lessons or workshops in the first couple of years can save you a lot of time later on and get you off on the right track.

[Jumbuk]

Hello, everybody.

What has been other people's experience about teaching themselves a new musical instrument if they have experience (15 yrs) on another one?

Steve Mack

If you have experience with another instrument, especially if it is in the same tradition, you are way ahead at the start.

It is perfectly possible to teach yourself. However, there is a danger - you can't watch yourself play, and you may overlook important points. Taking lessons is more challenging - you have to subject yourself to close scrutiny by a teacher - and this is something you won't get anywhere else.

If you can streach your finances, I would suggest doing (say) 2 or 3 starter lessons with a teacher, then coming back for a "check-up" at regular intervals. That will help you make sure you are on the right track with embouchure, posture, fingering etc.

[I.D.10-t]

Reading this I think of my own past with music. Do I need a teacher? Yes. The people at Ft. Snelling taught me what the music (not Trad) was suppose to sound like, and I listened and asked questions. I listened to a local player of the flute and asked him questions about Irish music and the flute. I paid for a baroque flute player to teach me fife embouchure and learned much.

Do you need to pay for a teacher? At times, but some times your colleges are the only people that can give you your answers. They are teachers.

[ImNotIrish]

I am basically a self-taught player. I have had a few lessons, workshops here and there, and began on the whistle before picking up the flute. I recently had a lesson with Brendan Dolan and found out several interesting things about my playing: first, I tend to put vibrato into tunes where it has no place being; secondly, I use my breath to supply most of my articulation, thereby creating a choppier, and less fluid sound. And finally, I seem to play in a very syncopated style (perhaps that is neither here nor there, but Brendan had a problem with it). Oh, yeah, one last thing- I don't seem to have the 'chirps' under my belt (you may know these as 'cuts'). Now, before you start thinking, "Wow, how devastating!" Brendan did give me a wonderful compliment on my tone! Over the last couple of years I have made it a personal goal to work on my tone, so I guess I was doing something right? Anyway, after a week of feeling like I couln't play anything anymore, I got back to my usual routine and tried to keep Brendan's suggestions in the forefront of my mind. I'm actually looking forward to another lesson soon!

Arb

[Jumbuk]

Now, before you start thinking, "Wow, how devastating!" Brendan did give me a wonderful compliment on my tone!

Arb

I think that was what I was referring to in my earlier post. I am self-taught as well, and I know from personal experience that it is more comfortable to just keep learning at your own pace. Even though most teachers are good at making you feel relaxed during the lesson, it does take a bit of gumption to lay your playing out in front of someone else. You miss out on so much potential improvement if you never do it.

[tin tin]

I think workshops are a great way to get a good boost in one's playing. I also think lessons (even just a few) can really help with the mechanics of playing. Of course, experimentation works, too, and there are also a number of good books available. The main thing is to avoid learning bad habits--the brain doesn't filter these things and will just as readily learn the wrong way of doing things as the right way! I've experienced the kind of starting over Brad talks about, and it ain't easy!
For style, listening is crucial. Start a CD collection, and spend time doing close listening. (I think this is as important as playing.)
Finally (I have to remind myself of this frequently), give yourself time! It won't happen over night, but growth does happen. Make a tape of yourself now, and listen again in 6 months or a year.

[bradhurley]

The other thing I would add is that if you're not working with a teacher (and even if you are) it helps to maintain a "beginner's mind" and cultivate a sense of self-doubt. If you're too confident you're unlikely to get very far. The worst players I've encountered are usually those who think they've "got it" it after a few years and stop learning anything except new tunes to add to their repertoire. The better players are usually those who are willing to work, to question their assumptions, to listen closely, to keep an open mind, and to never stop learning.

[Cathy Wilde]

The other thing I would add is that if you're not working with a teacher (and even if you are) it helps to maintain a "beginner's mind" and cultivate a sense of self-doubt. If you're too confident you're unlikely to get very far. The worst players I've encountered are usually those who think they've "got it" it after a few years and stop learning anything except new tunes to add to their repertoire. The better players are usually those who are willing to work, to question their assumptions, to listen closely, to keep an open mind, and to never stop learning.

AMEN, Brad.

I've noticed that the good players also spend a fair amount of time playing alone, exploring stuff. What's more, they aren't afraid to take things apart (whether it's a tune or their tone) and put them back together again.

Besides making them better players, I think it makes them much more flexible, agile and generally self-aware.

It's hard to be able to assess yourself honestly (let alone rigorously). But the only way to guarantee you won't get better is to think you don't need to get better.