The heartbreak of perfect pitch

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 2:48 pm

So I played another note and he said H.
I explained that there's no H in music, just A-G.

Actually there is an H. So much traditional German band music is in Bb that it became common (even in classical music) to refer to that pitch as B. So in order to distinguish B-natural from B, they called it H.

ChrisA · Post by **ChrisA** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 3:56 pm

"perfect pitch" is probably better called "absolute pitch" and some music programs are leaning that way... one can have, so to speak, imperfect perfect pitch, ie, a pitch memory that gets you within a reasonably few cents of an arbitrarily named note, but not necessarilly exactly on (my own sense of absolute pitch is only within a step or so, referencing D below D below middle C, which is about the lowest note I can sing... compared to a digital tuner, singing this note out of the blue ranges from C# to Eb, which isn't particularly impressive, but demonstrates the idea that one can have a very imperfect sense of absolute pitch but still have -some- sense of absolute pitch...); it is also not an purely an innate trait, but a learnable one. If you can, for example, learn a song in a particular key and call it up in that key at will, all you need then is to put names to the notes and have a good sense of relative pitch (the ability to hear whether a scale or chord is 'right' or 'wrong', how 'big' an interval is and what direction it's in, etc.)

The only training I know for improving your sense of pitch is to practice vocal exercises... of course, if you don't want to train your sense of pitch to equal temperament this is going to be a problem since very few pianos are tuned to the irish sound.

(And I've certainly noticed that certain notes... especially C-natural ... tend to be 'off' in my voice against the piano... because I'm used to hearing the air on the whistle or flute, and that's where I try to sing the note! Then I get it 'right' and now I'm off against a whistle... ah well.)

You will find, btw, that in laypersons terms , many people will claim to have perfect pitch, when what they actually mean (whether they have it or not) is a very good sense of relative pitch. These people are usually unrepentant braggarts and should be humoured with a smile and a nod, given no encouragement, and under no circumstances be allowed to handle the tuning of any instruments!

--Chris

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 3:58 pm

On 2002-07-25 16:48, Ridseard wrote:
So I played another note and he said H.
I explained that there's no H in music, just A-G.
Actually there is an H. So much traditional German band music is in Bb that it became common (even in classical music) to refer to that pitch as B. So in order to distinguish B-natural from B, they called it H.

True enough. Ask a German to name the notes in a C-major scale, and he will say: C D E F G A H C.

The explaination I've heard for this suggests that it's older than band music, though. Supposedly the reason is early musical typsetting and the fact that flattening B-natural to B-flat was the only accidental used. They were called b durum and b molle (which is a also the origin for the German terms for major and minor). To this day, a flat looks a little like a lower case b and a natural sign resembles an h. (We're talking middle ages here, btw.)

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:02 am

On 2002-07-25 17:56, ChrisA wrote:
"(And I've certainly noticed that certain notes... especially C-natural ... tend to be 'off' in my voice against the piano... because I'm used to hearing the air on the whistle or flute, and that's where I try to sing the note! Then I get it 'right' and now I'm off against a whistle... ah well.)

Try playing or singing a scale perfectly in tune with a drone, you'll find you will be way off the equal tempered scale but are actually singing the proper 'perfect' harmonic intervals .

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-07-26 07:06 ]

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:10 am

On 2002-07-25 12:55, DazedinLA wrote:
I tend to be more picky about my pitch on the fiddle than on whistle for some reason...personally, I'm more tolerant of whistle pitch than other instruments, but maybe that's just me.

When I played the violin, I was the same. I could tell the note I was playing was out, and would "slide" into the correct note. Unfortunately for classical music this was a no-no, I couldn't even get away with pretending it was vibrato, and I never developed the finger memory to hit the note spot on every time.

As I can't tune my whistles, other than with breath control, I don't hassle myself about tuning problems.

When singing, I can return a note sung or played, and sing the whole scale, arpeggio, particular interval etc, but still couldn't name the original note. I can happily sing a tune in, say C, then sing the whole thing again in D.

For me, notes are like colours, I can appreciate them without having all the names.

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:28 am

As mentioned on another thread, my once acute sense of relative pitch was destroyed by years of playing a butchered uilleann pipe chanter (someone had tried to "upgrade" what I think was a C sharp to D and hadn't quite got there - or at least some of the notes didn't survive the journey).

So latterly, particularly since I play mainly with fiddlers and fluters who still distrust my pitch, I have taken to checking my relatively new Rogge concert set with an electronic tuner, which I have also used for the drones. Intriguingly, after painstakingly tuning each drone individually with the tuner, I inevitably have to go back and tune them all slightly flat of what the tuner tells me to do, although it is registering the A, top and even bottom D as perfectly pitched.

christina · Post by **christina** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:27 am

i'm a perfect pitch..
it's really bugging me if the whistle is out of tune..
u would just think it sounds bad.
so i think i know ur situation

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:35 am

On 2002-07-26 09:27, christina wrote:
i'm a perfect pitch..
it's really bugging me if the whistle is out of tune..
u would just think it sounds bad.
so i think i know ur situation

I'm guessing you use txt msgs a lt, Christina?

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:43 am

... and if I were you, Christina, I wouldn't try "I'm a perfect pitch" as a chat-up line in a noisy pub.

[ This Message was edited by: Roger O'Keeffe on 2002-07-26 09:49 ]

DazedinLA · Post by **DazedinLA** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:09 am

This might be a bit OT, but...

I've been intensely focusing on fiddle lately, and have been using an electric tuner as a reference for practicing fingerings and hitting notes on pitch.

Im noticing that my ear is always registering notes sharp, i.e., Im always playing a bit flat, which sounds right to my ear but the tuner says I'm playing flat. I guess I trust this $40.00 electric wonder, but should I get a tuning fork just to be sure? How reliable are the standard tuners out there in your collective experience?

_________________
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/whistleannex/index.html">The Whistle Annex</a>, Home of the Chiffboard Matrix

[ This Message was edited by: DazedinLA on 2002-07-26 11:10 ]

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:24 am

On 2002-07-26 09:43, Roger O'Keeffe wrote:
... and if I were you, Christina, I wouldn't try "I'm a perfect pitch" as a chat-up line in a noisy pub.

LMAO! very good one, Roger. Nothing like a noisy pub for a bit of misunderstanding.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 10:19 am

I'm not afflicted with perfect pitch (more correctly called "absolute pitch"...and trust me, the people I know who are definitely describe it as an affliction, especially when the conductor decides to have us sing music in a different key than the one in which it is written. For a person with absolute pitch, it's like being asked to do a simultaneous translation).

I do have excellent relative pitch. When I speak of my whistles being "out of tune," I'm talking about certain notes being noticeably sharp or flat relative to others in the scale , to the point where it's not possible to correct by blowing or fingering a little differently. I'm not anal about perfect intervals, but when a note is clearly wrong, it makes me cringe.

Redwolf