Just got my Black Belt in Taekwon-Do

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Tyler
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Post by Tyler »

Henke wrote:
And about Aikido, ..... I feel like it's extremely orchestrated, that the stuff could never work if the attackers were a little bit smarter than to just charge in with their heads lowered like bulls.
:lol: in my proffession, that's exactly what they do. It's rather comical when you look at it, but your average "tough-guy" cant fight for sh*t.
I've never been real big on Aikido, but following what I've seen on the street, sometimes any system is better than none.
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Henke
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Post by Henke »

Ok, fair enough Tyler. Of course someone who's been doing Aikido will be better prepared for a fight than someone who hasn't been doing anything, so of course any system is better than none. But the question is if Aikido is really one of the most effective martial arts. I highly doubt it.

It might be great for handling your average tough-guy. But when you come across someone who can handle himself fairly well, you might be screwed.
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Post by djm »

If aikido isn't tough enough for you you could always try aikijujutsu - more "technique", less "way" - intended for straight fighting.

You will never get a true appreciation for any of these arts by reading a book or watching kata. Walk into someone's dojo and and tell them you want to see how their art stacks up aginst what you know. Remember that no matter how good you are there is always someone faster, and make sure your health insurance premiums are paid up.

djm
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Henke
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Post by Henke »

djm wrote:If aikido isn't tough enough for you you could always try aikijujutsu - more "technique", less "way" - intended for straight fighting.
Or, I could try Hapki-Do, which I have already mentioned. It's largely based on Aikijutsu, but with a few other things added from other arts. And it's korean. I don't have any particular reason for this, but at this point, I feel like I want to stick with korean arts if there is a choice (Rather Hapkido than Aikijutsu, rather Hwarang Do than Ninpo Taijutsu, rather Tang Soo Do than some external type of Gung Fu)
djm wrote: You will never get a true appreciation for any of these arts by reading a book or watching kata. Walk into someone's dojo and and tell them you want to see how their art stacks up aginst what you know. Remember that no matter how good you are there is always someone faster, and make sure your health insurance premiums are paid up.

djm


I know. And I hesitated to say anything about Aikido, but I felt I could do it anyway, with a little disclaimer in there.
You can often draw some conclutions about an art just by watching the techniques. It's most often quite easy to see the philosophy behind them, and in a system like Aikido, that philosophy is usually what rules all the techniques. Then you can start thinking about if you think it could work and be effective.
But as I said, you can never know for sure until you've tried.

Cheers[/quote]
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Post by Blackbeer »

It seems as though any discussion of martial arts between practitioners of different arts always ends up the same way. One always has to be better, more effecient or what ever then anyone elses. The fact is it depends on the indavidual. I fought in many open terniments where I never new what style of fighter I was going to face. They were always interesting battles but I new they didn`t have a chance, that was my mind set. I was never beaten in that kind of contest. Course now that I am pushing 60 I find a .357 Colt to suit me better :)

Peace and take care

Tom
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Post by scarhand »

For the record, I have earned my purple belt in Shotokan, and have also studied Wado. But I'm such a clutz I forget the moves before the next practice session. Dunno how I even got to purple . . .
the brave do not live forever,
but the cautious do not live at all.
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Post by talasiga »

Ancient Hindu Proverb:-

No-one knows how strong are the truly powerful for the truly powerful never need to display their power.
qui jure suo utitur neminem laedit
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Post by Tyler »

Blackbeer wrote: Course now that I am pushing 60 I find a .357 Colt to suit me better :)
....a'course there's another discussion entirely! :lol: (But then again....speed and practice technique are all with a handgun. Your average shootout lasts less than three seconds...if I were pushing 60 I sure as hell wouldn't be carrying a Colt 357! As it is, while off duty I carry the fastest damn thing I can afford!)
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Tyler
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Post by Tyler »

talasiga wrote:Ancient Hindu Proverb:-

No-one knows how strong are the truly powerful for the truly powerful never need to display their power.
....so powerful wit is not your forte? :D
“First lesson: money is not wealth; Second lesson: experiences are more valuable than possessions; Third lesson: by the time you arrive at your goal it’s never what you imagined it would be so learn to enjoy the process” - unknown
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Henke
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Post by Henke »

Yeah Tom. I hear ya. It's a shame. Can't remember who started it this time but it's always someone :)
People should practice whatever they feel comfortable with and whatever they think is fun and rewarding. I don't even think the self-defence issue is what I'm most concerned with eighter.
However, it can always be rewarding to discuss. Exchange experience of each others arts.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma here. I'm going to keep practice Taekwon-Do (of course) next year and probably for many years to come, but it would be fun to have a secondary style. There is a Hapki-Do club nearby here as I've said, which would probably be a great back-up to TKD, but I've also found a Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu dojo in the town where I study. I have no idea what I should choose. They both seem like great arts which I have always dreamt about studying.
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Henke
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Post by Henke »

C'mon. Somebody has to have some knowledge of some of these arts. Don't you have any experience to share?
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Post by Feadin »

Henke, about Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu... it's something completely different from all the "martial arts" you've mentioned. If you only want a "backup" to taekwondo, that won't be of much use, it requires many more years and effort of training than the rest. And anyway, it's not focused on sports or fighting, it's a lot deeper than that. It won't just teach you a couple of things, it will change you completely, and your life will change accordingly.
In my experience it was one of the more rewarding things I've ever made, it's incredibly deep and rich, and the results won't show as early as on other "arts" since the change starts from the roots, but then it becomes completely natural and everything changes, from your point of view, to the way you walk, the way you talk to other people, the way you eat, and so on...
But before starting only get sure that the dojo is authorized by the Soke Hatsumi Sensei from Japan, unfortunately they're a lot of people who only practised a couple of months (or a couple of years, not much difference here) and then opened their own dojo and teach some mixed movements under the name of the Bujinkan... but if you go and see a couple of classes, I'm sure you'll know if it's the real thing. Remember than the most notable thing here is the complete naturalisation of movements, nothing forced, nothing brutal or exagerated but it's also not the other end like the "coreography" of Aikido. It's natural and relaxed, but effective at the same time.

Well, I did my best, it's quite difficult to me to write all this in english, so I hope you'll understand what I mean :)

Good luck!
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Post by Darwin »

Henke wrote:And about Aikido, I'm not as sure that it's one of the most effective systems. I think it would work, but I don't think it would be very effective. I've never practiced much Aikido though so I can't say for sure. From what it looks like, it seems it would do the trick in many situations. Everytime I've seen a demonstration of Aikido, I feel like it's extremely orchestrated, that the stuff could never work if the attackers were a little bit smarter than to just charge in with their heads lowered like bulls.
I don't doubt that an Aikido master would severely kick my ass if we sparred though (or at least throw my ass to the floor). There is a limit as to how soft and non-violent a self-defence system can be and still work.
Hapkido seems like a more realistic art in that case, but it also feathures many of the good elements from Aikido.
In my limited experience, it takes a long time to develop Aikido to the point of being useful in serious real-world fighting. For one thing, most training is based on what are essentially kata. There is no sparring as such--though upper blackbelt ranks do work with freeform attacks--including multiple attackers with weapons. This is part of the principle of reducing conflict.

The essential idea of Aikido is not fighting. If you want to learn fighting, you're better off with aikijutsu, jujutsu, etc. (That's assuming you'll be better off fighting.)

There are a number of schools that have split off from the original (Aikikai) since the death of the founder, Ueshiba Morihei. Shioda Goza's school (Yoshinkan) puts a bit more emphasis on practical combat skills. Tohei Koichi's Ki Society (Ki no Kai) puts more emphasis on Ki. Aikikai remains somewhere in the middle. There is even a Sport Aikido, developed by Tomiki Kenji. This is the variety that I'm least familiar with. In many ways, the differences flow from differences in the personalities of the various teachers. Even within Aikikai, different teachers have their individual styles.

Because of the emphasis on restraint without injury, nurses and orderlies who have to deal with potentially violent patients often find Aikido techniques useful.

For myself, I simply enjoyed Aikido practice. It was fun. It was interesting. It fit my dislike of conflict. (Funny characteristic for a career soldier, huh?)

Oh, I almost forgot. Congratulations, Henke. Remember that in most martial arts, your first black belt is recognition that you're really serious about your practice. It's the beginning, not the end.
Mike Wright

"When an idea is wanting, a word can always be found to take its place."
 --Goethe
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Post by dubhlinn »

Henke wrote:C'mon. Somebody has to have some knowledge of some of these arts. Don't you have any experience to share?

This is all very interesting, in some sort of an academic way.

I find that a swift kick straight into the 'nads ends most argumentive discussions.
Do onto others before they do it onto you.

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D. :)
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Loved and thought himself beloved,
From a glad kindness cannot take his eyes.

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Post by Henke »

Feadin, that's pretty much what I figured about Bujinkan Budo. I don't just want a back up for Taekwon-Do. I want to keep practicing Taekwon-Do and excell in it, but I want to try something different as well. I feel at home with Taekwon-Do (not like I feel that I've reached a level where I know stuff, but at home with the terminology, training methods, and some other parts of the system), so it's time to try something different as well. Don't know what I'll choose to really go into depth with in the end (if anything).
Hapkido feels like I'm not straying too far from home. I'm still on the Korean peninsula. Still the same language and basic philosophy, even if Hapkido is very different from Taekwon-Do. I like the idea of an art that has no sporting applications at all. I'm not really bothered by the sport side of Taekwon-Do since we in the ITF are the traditional part, we do compete, but we don't consider it important.
One thing that I am bothered by in Taekwon-Do is all the damn politics. First there is ITF vs. Oh, my goodness! What in the world?. I constantly have to tell people that I don't do the stuff that they saw in the Olympics, that the most we have in common with them is the name, that I practice a traditional martial art.
Then there is the splitting of the ITF since the founder passed away in 2002, much like what Darwin described with Aikido only we have three ITF's which all say that they are the true ITF and none of the others are recogniced. It bugges me off. Taekwon-Do has always been a target for political conflict.
I've always thought of Bujinkan Ninpo as a very comprehensive art, and I like that. It's something I'm intrigued by and I would like to study it deeper. And I probably will some time. It seems much like the korean counterpart Hwarang Do. They are more a system of life than a system of fighting. Unfortunately there are no Hwarang Do dojangs anywhere near here, if there were I would jump at it directly.
Feadin, if you have been practicing Bujinkan Budo I can understand that you'd look down somewhat on other arts, but don't forget that most of them have a deep philosophy that teaches you a lot about life. There are some martial sports that are only concerned with gold medals. I often feel that Taekwon-Do gets a bad reputation as such, when it really isn't. I've found with Taekwon-Do that everything is there, you just have to dig for it and show someone high up that you are dedicated, then they might decide to teach you something about the real Taekwon-Do, not just which technique combos scores you the most points in a competition.

Thanks Darwin. I'm very aware that this is when my real training starts. There are a few people that starts training, does it for a few years, get their black belt, then quit. My sabumnim has been telling us many times that colour belt only practice basic techniques and control, it's when you are a black belt that you are concidered to be an advanced student and will get to learn the real essence of Taekwon-Do.

And Dave. That's not really what it's about. On the self defence side of things you have a point though. However, it can be more complicated than kicking someone in the nuts.
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