Whistle keys in "regular" music... ???

[Celtic983]

You've nailed the nail on the head. Thats exactly correct.

[fearfaoin]

I probably jumped the gun in assuming that Fenian's learning "by ear" meant taking tunes from the head and putting them to the whistle.

Ah sorry, I was confused by your terminology.

I recently picked out Scotland the Brave by ear. I don't have a recording of it ... I just know how the melody goes.

I would call this "Learning by memory", and in this case, resulted in
you playing the tune in whatever key was comfortable on the whistle
you were using (which is a good way to learn about keys).

If you did have a recording of it, and were matching the notes on
your whistle to the exact notes on the recording, that would be
"Learning by ear", and results in either using a whistle meant for
the key the song is being played in, or else forcing an ill-suited
whistle to play in the necessary key using half-holing.

[Jason Paul]

True and point taken.

I guess I was lumping "learning by ear" into the broad category of simply not using sheet music.

In addition, I also added to the confusion by assuming that most people just pick up their whistles and start figuring out a tune, rather than trying to play along with a CD to get the actual notes correct.

My assumption = path of least resistance = picking out the easiest way to play a tune on the whistle you've got.

And you know what they say happens when we assume...

Jason

[Celtic983]

I personally think that knowing a tune...and then playing it on a whistle is playing by ear. How did he learn the tune? He listen to it and found out how it went. Learned the tune by ear. Then just put it on a particular instrument. Prolly spliting hairs anyway......

Cheers

Matt

[NicoMoreno]

Just to clarify a few things:

A means half-holing the G only (ie you play a G# and a C#)
--> A B C# D E F# G# A

Cnat can be cross- or fork-fingered:
Cnat= 0XX000 where 0 is open, X is covered

Any whistle can play it's key and a fourth up (ie, D= D + G, A= A + D, E = E + A, etc) with no half-holing (using the above cross-fingering technique for the 7th, ie Cnat, note).

The reason (on a whistle intended fo irish music) you'd not want half-hole irish music is that often the whistles are tuned closer to "just intonation" so if you played a C whistle in D with half-holing, it'd sound weird. That and the ornamentation would sound off. At least, in my experience it has...

[fearfaoin]

I personally think that knowing a tune...and then playing it on a whistle is playing by ear. How did he learn the tune? He listen to it and found out how it went. Learned the tune by ear. Then just put it on a particular instrument. Prolly spliting hairs anyway.

I agree, it's semantics. But for the purposes of this discussion, the
difference was causing confusion.

I don't have perfect pitch, so when I hear a song in my head that I
know well, it is possible (in fact, highly probable) that I have
accidentally transposed it because I have no ear-reference to correct
for. So, I have the intervals correct, but have moved the tune into a
different key. (It's like moving a capo on a guitar.) This is why I
distinguish "learning from memory" and "learning by ear", because
with the former, the only aural feedback is from the whistle, and you
can match your head-tune with the tune you are hearing yourself
play.

[Celtic983]

This is why I distinguish "learning from memory" and "learning by ear"

I see your point and the difference between the two. So often with me, I hear a tune, then weeks or months go by with it just popping up in my head. One day, I'll just pick up whistle and it will just come out. No way am I sure what key it was in when I originally heard it. (This of course has to be why I can NEVER remember the names of the tune) Playing by ear has to be "safer" than playing by memory. Some times when I play by memory...my memory fails me, or I put the A part of one song with the B part of another (ussually when they are very simular) I always catch it .... but it frustrates me sometimes!

[IDAwHOa]

Just to clarify a few things:

Cnat can be cross- or fork-fingered:
Cnat= 0XX000 where 0 is open, X is covered

And just to clarify that:

OXXOOO is the univerally accepted place to start to find your cross fingered Cnat (or equivalant on other key whistles). By all means this is not always the case though since OXXOOO does not always produce an in tune note. Granted, it may be close enough for fast tunes, but when playing slow or harmonic duets it may make your ears twitch because it will not sound right. For each whistle you may have to find that whistles own Cnat fingering.

As a matter of fact, I received a whistle recently for which I have yet to find a fingering that is even closely in tune when the rest of the whistle is reasonably in tune. On others, the cross fingering is so different from OXXOOO that it is basically useless, at least for me.

[fearfaoin]

Some times when I play by memory...my memory fails me, or I put the A part of one song with the B part of another (ussually when they are very simular) I always catch it .... but it frustrates me sometimes!

Man, have I ever been there. Recently, I've been trying to separate
"King of the Fairies" and "Scollay's Reel". It's pure, unadulterated evil.

[texasbagpiper]

Just to clarify a few things:

A means half-holing the G only (ie you play a G# and a C#)
--> A B C# D E F# G# A

Cnat can be cross- or fork-fingered:
Cnat= 0XX000 where 0 is open, X is covered

Any whistle can play it's key and a fourth up (ie, D= D + G, A= A + D, E = E + A, etc) with no half-holing (using the above cross-fingering technique for the 7th, ie Cnat, note).

The reason (on a whistle intended fo irish music) you'd not want half-hole irish music is that often the whistles are tuned closer to "just intonation" so if you played a C whistle in D with half-holing, it'd sound weird. That and the ornamentation would sound off. At least, in my experience it has...

Liar ...

[fearfaoin]

Liar ...

Man, I sure am glad you resurrected this topic for that...

[riverman]

To all of you:
THANKS so much for this information! I have been wondering about this for a long time and have not gotten a straight answer (probably because many assumed I knew more than I did). I cannot afford to buy whistles fast--only about one a year. So now I know which to buy first, and I know I don't have to own 8 whistles to play with different keys. I am interested in playing with our praise team in the future (though they haven't ASKED!) and this is helpful for the future.