im curious about great tinwhistle tabs for irish folk music

[dubhlinn]

Very well said Screech, I salute you.

I've been saying the same thing for years now.Sheet music is a means to an end and can be of great help to those without access to teachers or sessions.
Plenty of listening as well of course, but a combination of sheet music and a good CD collection is more than enough to get anyone started in the right direction.

Slan,
D.

[NicoMoreno]

Once you
can read basic tunes then you can scan and sight read through any of the
hundreds of printed tune collections and select those tunes that sound
good in your head.

Right, but you won't be able to make them sound good unless you know what they are supposed to sound like.

Sheet music is good for getting the notes, but not so useful for getting the tune. To get the tune you need to 1) either listen to somebody playing the tune and mimic the rhythm, phrasing, breaths and so on, or 2) immerse yourself in the music and learn in general how jigs, reels, hornpipes, polkas and whatnot are supposed to sound. Then you interpret the tune, but it's based on an understanding of how the tune type is supposed to sound. Neither way is easy, but if you never listen to any of the music, there is no way you can possibly make it sound like it's supposed to from sheet music, abc's or "whistle tab".

So, the point is, sure learn sheet music, abc's or something else, but also learn to pick it up by ear. It's probably the easiest, in the long run...

[Colin]

Once you
can read basic tunes then you can scan and sight read through any of the
hundreds of printed tune collections and select those tunes that sound
good in your head.

Right, but you won't be able to make them sound good unless you know what they are supposed to sound like.

Sheet music was good for getting the notes, but not so useful for getting the tune. To get the tune you need to 1) either listen to somebody playing the tune and mimic the rhythm, phrasing, breaths and so on, or 2) immerse yourself in the music and learn in general how jigs, reels, hornpipes, polkas and whatnot are supposed to sound. Then you interpret the tune, but it's based on an understanding of how the tune type is supposed to sound. Neither way is easy, but if you never listen to any of the music, there is no way you can possibly make it sound like it's supposed to from sheet music, abc's or "whistle tab".

So, the point is, sure learn sheet music, abc's or something else, but also learn to pick it up by ear. It's probably the easiest, in the long run...

Nico, the point was that standard music notation is no more restrictive
than any form of notation. Also, no one is recommending that a person
only learn from notation. Students need to hear music being played,
regardless of the type of music.
As for sight reading, I think you'll find that most everybody who learns to
sight read music is able to 'hear' the tune in their head to one degree or
another. That's what sight reading is. I have no great musical talents
but I can sight read any book of fiddle tunes and hear the melody (and
basic chord progressions) in my head. It's a question of practice.
You are right that playing by ear is the way to go, but I think that many
people require the additional help offered by notation. A combination of
the two is the best way to learn.

Colin

[Dee Whistler]

You are right that playing by ear is the way to go, but I think that many
people require the additional help offered by notation. A combination of
the two is the best way to learn.

I fully agree. I did find also the tablatures useful when I was teaching beginning whistlers in this little workshop I had. There were players that had not played any instruments and had absolutely zero knowledge of musical notation or theory. So, they and I find the tablatures I made very helpful, cause in that way they could more easily play the tune through and we could progress faster than if we would have sticked to the "learn by ear" method. Also, I think that the tablatures might be helpful in learning the basic musical notation as well.

Notation used in trad. tunes is always very simple and one absolutely cannot play strictly by notes and then claim that he "gots the tune" unless the person is deaf or something. I think that notation is very helpful tool in every music, but musicianship in every musical tradition needs the knowledge and experience learned by ear also. Besides, the notation works many times as the only way to get some sense of older music that is not recorded in any other way. I think many tunes that are now regularly played would have been long forgotten if Francis O'Neill, Edward Bunting and the likes had not written them down.

Notation is not music, and there is many things it does not record, but it is not supposed to do that either, at least in most musical notation traditions. It is a helpful application and I don't understand how one can violate something by using this tool.

Antti

[Screeeech!!!]

It's actually very enjoyable to take a piece of notated music from any genre without ever having listened to the generally accepted way of playing it and seeing what you can make of the tune without any preconceptions or beliefs that it should go one way or another.

There really is nothing wrong in finding your own interpretation of a tune before listening to the accepted one and then learning that as well. It's fun to see what ideas you come up with and to see where the differences lie.

I'm finding it a very good way to actually learn how to get that Irish feel that i don't have naturally and to understand the tunes i'm learning a little bit better. By playing them "wrong", i understand better what i need to do to play them right, if you get my point.

And there's also nothing wrong with swinging an ITM tune in different ways to suit different moods and different people. ITM is beautiful, but the music can also be beautiful if you play it with different feels.

I learned to read music as a young child, and it has given me so many years of enjoyment that i really can't recommend it enough. There's so many beautiful tunes written down in archives and books that haven't been heard for many years just waiting to be played again by future generations of players.

There's also tons of 6/8 tunes in other genres that could, with a bit of thought, be turned into very nice Jigs with a pure drop feel.

At the end of the day, it's about you the player enjoying what you're doing. I came to the whistle knowing how to read music, so i'm not going to turn my back on a wonderful ability.

[Tyghress]

One of the Mel Bay books starts with a dozen tunes or so in tab.

You ask not only for tabbed music, but GOOD tabbed music, and I don't think that exists.

Whistle tab is fine for reminding you of the notes, but it is awful for playing. Really really. It takes more effort to read it, doesn't show you intervals at all, no less phrasing.

Learning music by tab is kind of like asking someone to write out Twinkle Twinkle Little Star with each letter on a different line so you can learn the poem. Better is to tell you it really is worth spending the effort to learn to read whole words. But even that isn't necessary...you really can learn it by listening and knowing how to make the sounds.

If you'd take a week of concentrated effort to learn the letter type of note and its associated fingering you would make a huge leap ahead in playing. Better yet...get someone to play it VERY SLOWLY...get a slowdowner.

I know you don't want to hear it. I know you're not getting the answer you want. I'm sorry. But there are really good reasons no one has provided you with tab.

T
W
I
N
K
L
E


T
w
I
N
K
L
E


Sincerely, and apologetically,
Tyg

[Dee Whistler]

One of the Mel Bay books starts with a dozen tunes or so in tab.

You ask not only for tabbed music, but GOOD tabbed music, and I don't think that exists.

Whistle tab is fine for reminding you of the notes, but it is awful for playing. Really really. It takes more effort to read it, doesn't show you intervals at all, no less phrasing.

Learning music by tab is kind of like asking someone to write out Twinkle Twinkle Little Star with each letter on a different line so you can learn the poem. Better is to tell you it really is worth spending the effort to learn to read whole words. But even that isn't necessary...you really can learn it by listening and knowing how to make the sounds.

If you'd take a week of concentrated effort to learn the letter type of note and its associated fingering you would make a huge leap ahead in playing. Better yet...get someone to play it VERY SLOWLY...get a slowdowner.

I know you don't want to hear it. I know you're not getting the answer you want. I'm sorry. But there are really good reasons no one has provided you with tab.

To clear my point: 1)Whistle tablature might be IMHO helpful to someone, when learning the very basics of the instrument, so that you get the first tunes into some playable point quicker, and this might encourage a player to learn more. It is one possible starting point to somebody who comes outside the culture and does not have around much people who plays this music (for example, here in Finland this is the situation often). 2) Notation can be in many ways useful tool also, whether beginning or advanced player, it's all about what one does with the notation and what is the reason to use notation. For example, if one writes down tunes or uses notes to help memory or like in point 1) tries to somehow get the skeleton of a tune, I don't see no reason to object using notation. 3) Learning and playing by ear is the most efficient way to learn any musical tradition, and I too started this way, and agree that without it, one cannot learn to play really well. Also it increases one's general musical understanding and ability to really "hear" music.

But all said, I don't see why one cannot use all these three things: ear, notes and even tablatures. If it helps, or makes the playing enjoyable, Why not?

[talasiga]

Finger tablature has advantages over sheet music notation because with the latter, which is more "precise" and detailed, one may be lured into the misconception that the WHOLE of the music is in the notation when, in fact, it is alive and out there in the tradition and even the best sheet notation is ONLY ever a guide.

Finger tablature, being minimalist. patently does not masquerade as being the WHOLE of the music and prompts the player to seek audio sources and live experience of the music to fill out the learning process.

This post is not intended to apply to learning orchestral music.

Sheet music does not masquerade as being the whole of the music or anything else, it's inanimate, it can't do masquerades. Why people keep blaming notation for the problems of people who don't bother to learn to use and read it properly is quite beyond me.

Even in classical orchestras, the score is interpreted by the conductor and/or soloists, it certainly isn't perceived as the whole of the music.

......................

Darling Screech,
My use of "masquerade" was metaphorical. If you were to read my first paragraph which you have quoted you will see that I made it quite clear that it is the players' misconception that the sheet music is thw whole of the music. Not all players, of course - just a lot of em who are stuck on the sheet.

Your comment on classical orchestras agrees on the implication of my comment on sheet notation for orchestral music.

[talasiga]

To clear my point: 1)Whistle tablature might be IMHO helpful to someone, when learning the very basics of the instrument, so that you get the first tunes into some playable point quicker, and this might encourage a player to learn more. It is one possible starting point to somebody who comes outside the culture and does not have around much people who plays this music (for example, here in Finland this is the situation often). 2) Notation can be in many ways useful tool also, whether beginning or advanced player, it's all about what one does with the notation and what is the reason to use notation. For example, if one writes down tunes or uses notes to help memory or like in point 1) tries to somehow get the skeleton of a tune, I don't see no reason to object using notation. 3) Learning and playing by ear is the most efficient way to learn any musical tradition, and I too started this way, and agree that without it, one cannot learn to play really well. Also it increases one's general musical understanding and ability to really "hear" music.

Perfect.

[talasiga]

Sheet music is good for getting the notes, but not so useful for getting the tune. To get the tune you need to 1) either listen to somebody playing the tune and mimic the rhythm, phrasing, breaths and so on, or 2) immerse yourself in the music and learn in general how jigs, reels, hornpipes, polkas and whatnot are supposed to sound. Then you interpret the tune, but it's based on an understanding of how the tune type is supposed to sound. Neither way is easy, but if you never listen to any of the music, there is no way you can possibly make it sound like it's supposed to from sheet music, abc's or "whistle tab".

So, the point is, sure learn sheet music, abc's or something else, but also learn to pick it up by ear. It's probably the easiest, in the long run...

Exactly. Thank you.
And my additional point is that, seeing finger tablature is so minimally reflective of the music (so skeletal), it is more likely to prompt the learner to a greater dependence on the EAR in the long run.

[Screeeech!!!]

Darling Screech,
My use of "masquerade" was metaphorical. If you were to read my first paragraph which you have quoted you will see that I made it quite clear that it is the players' misconception that the sheet music is thw whole of the music. Not all players, of course - just a lot of em who are stuck on the sheet.

Your comment on classical orchestras agrees on the implication of my comment on sheet notation for orchestral music.

Dearest Tal,

The way i read your post was that you were pumping up the benefits of tab against notation, and clearly stated within that comparison "tab... ...patently does not masquerade as being the WHOLE of the music" Thereby implying, within the context of your statement, that notation does masquerade as such.

Whether metaphorical or not, notation is inanimate and patently does not masquerade as being the WHOLE of the music either. When comparing things you can't say something that is true about both things and only apply it to one of them to try to make a point that doesn't exist.

And your statement about orchestras was very unclear as to its context as well. At least the way i read it anyway.

[John F.]

Hear that? It's the same 'ol proverbial horse being beaten to death again, under the guise of a different subject line....

I have used, and still do use, all three methods (dots/TAB/ears), and IMHO, both reading the dots and reading TAB will give one the mechanics of a melody, or the "what." Using your ears will provide you with the "how." I don't see where any of these is better than the other.....maybe it's just me, I don't know....

[Dee Whistler]

Hear that? It's the same 'ol proverbial horse being beaten to death again, under the guise of a different subject line.... sad

And oh boy, that horse gots some stamina!

Peace!

[Guest]

I like candy.

[roguewhistler]

Thank you, but all I want to know is:

1:Can I find tabs for tinwhistle. *

2:If you know of any websites, can you list them.

3:Finally, I am not your college english professor, I know about music, so make your posts short, sweet, and to the point.


*this has been answered already.