Polkas.

[Silvio Zapparoli]

No mistake. It's the best way.

Steve

Oh Steve... you are a great man!

[ennistraveler]

Well, what is the difference between 2/4 and 4/4 timing? That 2/4 is faster (but that should depend on how fast you choose to play)? When I play bluegrass chops on the mandolin it sounds the same.. The only difference I can see is that in 4/4 timing there are whole notes. But, I'm no expert in music theory. I can just read simple sheet music and create major chords and that's about it.

[Markus]

Coming back to the original question, Niall Keegan in his lecture on Irish dance tune types told that Ireland has two traditions of polkas. First of all there's the Sliabh Luachra polkas that we usually take as definitive Irish polkas/whatnot. They have a 2/4 beat.

Then there are the more northwestern polkas associated with Sligo, Leitrim etc. You couldn't really dance the same steps with Sliabh Luachra and Sligo polkas, although sometimes you hear them played together - mostly with some obvious difficulty. These tunes have a beat closer to 4/4 than 2/4. They're also generally played quite a bit slower than the Sliabh Luachra ones. Tunes such as Dark girl dressed in blue and My love is but a lassie or Fred Finn's Polka would be good examples of the latter.

There are some who say that these different types of tunes shouldn't even be called with the same name and those who - blissfully unaware of all this - play them happily together.

Markus

[colomon]

Then there are the more northwestern polkas associated with Sligo, Leitrim etc. You couldn't really dance the same steps with Sliabh Luachra and Sligo polkas, although sometimes you hear them played together - mostly with some obvious difficulty. These tunes have a beat closer to 4/4 than 2/4. They're also generally played quite a bit slower than the Sliabh Luachra ones. Tunes such as Dark girl dressed in blue and My love is but a lassie or Fred Finn's Polka would be good examples of the latter.

Huh. I was going to object that even though I thought I could hear a 4/4 beat to "My Love is But a Lassie", no one ever notated it that way. Then I looked it up in Howe's as a relatively neutral source (quite possibly sourced from Scotland rather the Ireland, for one thing, and free of the playing style influences of the last 135+ years) and darned if they don't give it in 4/4.

I've just listened to the polka set from Music of Sligo and the Ballydesmond polkas from Star Above the Garter back to back. Perhaps it's just the power of suggestion but it seems to me I can definitely hear what you're talking about. If I listen to the Sligo polkas with an open ear, they definitely sound like they're in 4, whereas the Sliabh Luachra polkas are definitely 2, and the Sligo polkas are a bit slower, I think, and without that distinctive polka pulse. Wacky.

I don't know if this is true in general, but both of those Sligo polkas are also the melodies of songs....

[fearfaoin]

Well, what is the difference between 2/4 and 4/4 timing? That 2/4 is faster (but that should depend on how fast you choose to play)?

I am also no expert, but I believe 2/4 is used when you want to have
a strong down beat every 2 beats, instead of every four beats. So,
in 2/4 you'd count:

1 2 | 1 2 | 1 2 | 1 2 |

But in 4/4 you'd count:

1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 |
(the 3 being slightly stronger than 2 and 4, but not as strong as 1)

Also, there's probably some reason dealing with the phrasing of the
dance that goes with a polka, but I can't really speak on that, since I
don't know the dances.

[Markus]

Yeah well, I started to realise the difference between Sligo&SL polkas about six months ago and almost thought at that point I was making things up. However hearing it said by Niall Keegan from the lecturer's pulpit of Irish World Academy of Music and Dance (or whatever they wish to call it these days) at the University of Limerick did feel quite reassuring.

[Congratulations]

Also, there's probably some reason dealing with the phrasing of the dance that goes with a polka, but I can't really speak on that, since I don't know the dances.

Well, I'll speak as a representative from the world of classical music, for fear of being horribly wrong when it comes to trad.

The big difference between 2/4 and 4/4 is phrase length. Phrases are typically four measures long, so the phrase in 4/4 would be twice as many beats as a phrase in 2/4.

[Cathy Wilde]

OK, speaking of polkas ....

"Up And Away" and "The Merry Girl."

Both in 2/4 (although to me the meter feels more like true cut-time; i.e., 4/4 played as 2/2). I've generally heard them played a little more slowly than your standard "Maggie In The Woods" type thing.

I say they're polkas, but two generally-smarter-than-me friends assert that they're barn dances, and my sometimes-smarter-than-me fella doesn't think they're polkas either, although he doesn't offer an alternative.

I swear I've seen them referred to as polkas.



Does anyone here know?

[SteveShaw]

I've seen Ger the Rigger called both a polka and a "single reel." I must admit, it doesn't sound particularly polka-ish. I'm not trying to start that whole single-reel thing up again - just thought I'd mention it...

Steve

[Martin Milner]

There are a lot of different dance tunes, rants, trips, flings, fancies, breakdowns, where I have no idea how they are danced, and thus how they should be played.

[Dee Whistler]

But in 4/4 you'd count:

1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 |
(the 3 being slightly stronger than 2 and 4, but not as strong as 1)

Then there are some that suggests that reels should be marked as 2/2 and not 4/4 because the two strong accents per bar. And 4/4 should suit better for hornpipes.

The phrasing and accents are the key to these different markings.

[colomon]

Then there are some that suggests that reels should be marked as 2/2 and not 4/4 because the two strong accents per bar.

I'd say reels should be 2/2 because there are clearly only two beats in a bar!

[amar]

Uhmmm.... I have some problems with music notation.

Sometimes I learn by ear... It's a mistake?

no mistake, no mistake!!

(shall we open this can..?)

[Dee Whistler]

Dee Whistler wrote:
Then there are some that suggests that reels should be marked as 2/2 and not 4/4 because the two strong accents per bar.

colomon wrote:
I'd say reels should be 2/2 because there are clearly only two beats in a bar!

Yes! The word "beat" is of course the right one, my bad english again . Anyway that was the thing I meant. 2/2 is more correct than 4/4 considering reels.

[jbarter]

Uhmmm.... I have some problems with music notation.

Sometimes I learn by ear... It's a mistake?

no mistake, no mistake!!

(shall we open this can..?)

Oo look, it's full of worms.