Questions about open verses closed fingering.

[Learning Piper]

Hello all,
Well, I am learning more than I ever thought possible, and starting to wonder if its more than I wanted to know. (Ahhhhhhhh...) Ok, now that I've got that out of my system, on to business. I need some info on closed as opposed to open fingering. I think I get the actual mechanics of the two, (emphasis on the word think (geez, with this instrument what isn't an "if" or a "think"!) but I would like to hear good examples of both. Is it possible to tell the difference between the two fingerings just by listening? Can anyone recommend examples of open and closed fingerings, so I can hear the differences between the two?
Thanks,
S. K. Cull

[Jim McGuire]

For great tight piping, try Mick Coyne's site- both himself and Andy Conroy are great exponents of a tight style:
http://www.mickcoyne.moonfruit.com/welcome

[Brian Lee]

Mick O'Brien and John McSherry are two who strike me as more of the open, flowing style of piping. I'd think of Brian McNamara as one who is more of the closed or tight fingering style. There are others (older generation) who were especially gifted at this...

[gregorygraham]

That young fella James Mahon on The Bloom of Youth described his piping as tight, but I wouldn't have described it as especially tight. Great piping nonetheless.

[Learning Piper]

What about Paddy Keenen? And Lunasa's Cilliann Vallely?

[Brian Lee]

I'd tend to call both Paddy and Cillian fairly open and loose in their piping.

[Joseph E. Smith]

I'd tend to call both Paddy and Cillian fairly open and loose...

Those could be fighting words there buddy.

[Brian Lee]

It's true! LOL Well, let's just say they're 'tight' ain't gonna score any of us major brownie points either. We poor pipers just can't win. What a sorry lot we are! ROTFLOL

[Learning Piper]

Now now lads, let's not give Dale another excuse to call use surly.

[brescianimichele]

what about Robbie Hannan?

[billh]

what about Robbie Hannan?

Robbie does a lot of very well executed tight stuff. That said, "tight style" is not the first thing that comes to mind when listening to Robbie.

Any excellent player is likely to play a mix of "tight" and "open" - even Andy had to keep -er open in the top of the second octave

See for instance in Johnny Doran's playing (usually cited as the all time master of the 'open' travelling style) lots of tight triplets adding contrast to the overally rolling flow.

[djm]

I would suggest Leo Rowsome for open playing. He does ornaments, of course, but he is mostly an open player with very little of the pippity-pippity stuff that characterizes pure closed playing like Andy Conroy.

djm

[KDMARTINKY]

Brian Lee:

I'd tend to call both Paddy and Cillian fairly open and loose in their piping.

I haven't had the pleasure to watch or listen to Paddy, but Cillian on the other hand I listen to about everyday and although it probably goes against everything being taught, he tends to use open fingering, very loose (grace notes everywhere..LOL).

Although I am trying to go with the traditional and the most common technique for fingering in the discipline of the UPs...I find myself going against the grain and using open......I also find myself playing off my knee from time to time...so there...

I have found with my experience not only with Ups, but wioth most things that techniques which work for oneperson may not work for another and forcing yourself to conform doesn't make one want to learn, but walk away.....its my opinion that we are all different by design so with that said, I tend to go my own direction and learn and play in my own way which works for me. To me its not the wrong or right way, but its what works and I know I will get some criticism from the traditionalist, but like many of us we ted to freelance especially when it comes to playing because its away in my mind of that desired free expression and to show one's individual talents.

Just a thought.....

[djm]

KDM, that is my tendency also, but the reality is that this is just laziness. It limits my capabilities. I know that when I hit these impossible to play bits that these are the ones I need to concentrate most on. I may not like to listen to the pippity-pip style of playing, but I also know that I can't do it well, yet. "Freedom of expression" is a crock if you are using it as an excuse not to learn the tough stuff. You are not truly free unless you can play both open and closed techniques perfectly, but then "choose" to play open. The difference is huge.

djm

[simonknight]

Any excellent player is likely to play a mix of "tight" and "open" - even Andy had to keep -er open in the top of the second octave

See for instance in Johnny Doran's playing (usually cited as the all time master of the 'open' travelling style) lots of tight triplets adding contrast to the overally rolling flow.

I think this is a pretty good perspective from Bill. I think the ability to play tight is important even if your overall musical style tends more towards open. The UPs are one of the few pipes that are capable of this kind of variety - it seems to be an inherent part of music and the instrument.

Tight fingering is one of the things I found really difficult to get to grips with coming from other wind instruments. To me it felt mentally backwards (no insult intended) since you are thinking more about what finger to remove rather than which to place down. Once I got past that it all became (a little) easier although it took me way longer than I expected.

For KDMARTINKY, if you persevere you'll get there. BTW, if you are still interested in taking up the Northumbrian smallpipes, they are completely tight. You have to cover all holes and notes are played by lifting one finger or pressing one key only.