My Face Hurts! (And other flute related matters)

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:13 pm

Yes, yes...I know my face hurts others too, thank goodness this isn't a video message board or something, eh?

Anyway, I'm finally making some real progress on the Olwell in terms of tone and volume, however it's killing my face! To get a real hard edged tone I have to work my lips and facial muscles in such a way that my face practically cramps up every few minutes, yeowee!! It's worth it for the sound that comes out of the Olwell when I get that sound though.

Fact is, after practicing at least an hour a day since I got the flute, I must have tried a hundred different ways of lipping. And, true to what our good friend G. Collins said, I'm finding the Olwell has an amazing flexibility of tone - from hard edged growly with whip cracking ornaments on the high end and great bark down low, to sweet, smooth, pure and refined - the Olwell will do it all quite nicely....When I can actually get my lips to do the right things that is!

Too be honest, I'm still huffing and puffing my way through tunes - can't really seem to get my breathing just right yet. Also, I still lack consistency of tone and volume, but I'm starting to feel like I may be able to "master" the Pratten afterall (By master I mean control), which I was rather doubtful of when I first received this flute. Clearly, I still have a long way to go, and I wouldn't recommend a Pratten for the casual begginer, but with enough time and effort there's hope.

Hey David M., how 'bout you lay some exercises on us - stuff from your Fife days that you used to develope your lip? I'd be particularly interested in exercises specifically to develop good control and fluidity during transitions back and forth between octaves - I'm still struggling a bit with with going from the high octave down to the low E or D note, which I can hit just fine when I start down there, or if I'm running around in the first octave - no problem. However, the lips don't seem to want to get back in the right shape/position very often when I try droping down from the second octave to the low E or D note on the fly, and consequently I end up hitting a second octave note that I didn't want

Simply practicing long tones and strait octave jumps doesn't seem to be solving my problem, got some old faithful exercises you can suggest for the weak lipped amoung us?

Loren

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:56 pm

I'm not David, but here's an exercise I got from Rob Greenway for helping you gain overall control of your embouchure in every octave:

Play a low D, as nice and hard as you can. Now, without changing your fingering or your breath pressure (i.e. by doing it with your lips alone), sound each of the harmonics above that low D note in turn. First would be the middle D, then the A in the second octave, then the D above that. Go even higher if you can!

If you get to the point where doing this becomes easy, then you'll probably also notice that the octave (or bigger) jumps that you encounter in tunes are becoming easier too.

As with most things musical, practice + time = improvement. The higher both of those get over zero, the better.

John Kerr

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:09 pm

Thanks John

One question, I'm supposed to hit A in the second octave without changing my fingering? You lost me there...Well, I don't really understand harmonics much either....

Practice I understand!

Loren

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:50 pm

This may or may not help (and may or may not be what you're actually looking for!), but here's a tip for the face muscles:
When you first pick up the flute, relax all the muscles in you face, and your lips.
Blow across the flute's embouchure so that you get a sound, but with your face still really relaxed.
Very gradually start to tighten your lips (preferably only your lips, although this is easier said than done!) until you get close to the sound you want.

I know that this sounds silly, but it actually makes you think about which muscles you're using, as compared to the ones you don't actually need to tighten. I still find that, if I play for long enough, my cheek muscles start to hurt, but it's possible even at that point to relax the sore muscles and still get the kind of sound you want, if you focus on your lip shape instead... in theory, at any rate

!

Octaves... hmmm... all I can think of are fast D-D'-D, E-E'-E, F-F'-F jumps, up and down - it's more a case of letting your lips 'feel' the jump than anything else, I think....

Good luck! Especially on that Pratten!
Deirdre

WistleEnvy · Post by **WistleEnvy** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 7:57 pm

Loren, take one of you beloved whistles, you know, one of the ones you didn't sell

, and play the second octave D without the vent. Then overblow that same note and you should get the upper octave A. You can over blow more and get the high D. This may not work on all whistles but it should work on most.
Same thing on that Cocus Cannon that you will one day give to me.

[ This Message was edited by: WistleEnvy on 2002-07-16 21:57 ]

Mal · Post by **Mal** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 12:11 pm

In answer to Loren's question about the "D exercise,(suggested for improving embouchure and facilitating octave jumps), I close all six holes (xxx xxx_and then make the transition D - d' - a' - d" simply by altering my embouchure.

The idea is to increase the velocity of the air flow, and I think most folks think that the only way to do this is to diminish the size of the embouchure opening by tightening the lips. Actually, the same effect can be achieved by maintaining the same air pressure but putting the source (the lip embouchure hole) closer to the far edge of the flute's embouchure hole.

There are two ways of doing this; to roll the flute toward the lips, or to extend the lips toward the cutting edge of the flute embouchure. The latter method is less apt to flatten tone because it is more conducive to maintaing the same angle of the air stream's attack.

If you want to try an interesting experiment to see how this works, do the following:

Bblock off the bottom of the headpiece bore (put it against your palm or put a cork in it) and then, using a shortish section of an ordinary soda straw, blow a steady air stream directed on the far edge of the embouchure hole to make a sound. You will find that you can change between a low octave and higher octave sound simply by bringing the end of the straw closer to the embouchure edge. No change in either the air volume or pressure. Everybody knows how fast the velocity of a stream of water drops after it leaves a hose nozzle. Air is no different.)

I think the straw experiment may help somebody get a truer mental picture of what is happening when the air stream hits the edge of the embouchure chimney and metamorphasizes into sound waves.

Mal

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 1:09 pm

To help explain the idea of harmonic excercises, I'm going to quote a bit from Robert Dick's "Tone Development Through Extended Techniques."
"Practice of natural harmonics is valuable for increasing the strength of the lips and developing the knowledge of the best embouchure position required to produce of full, centered sound on each pitch.
"... In beginning these studies, the player is cautioned not to overfatigue the lips but to allow the strenght to develop gradually.
"... Follow practice of natural harmonics immediately with a traditional low register study... Keep a 2:1 ratio of low tones to practice of natural harmonics, then rest.
"... One should avoid the temptation to 'dig in' for natural harmonics... Instead, think of 'reaching out' for them, moving the jaw forward and both pushing forward and turning outward with the lips. When the embouchure is good, the air will do the work if it is well supported and focused. The freest sounding natural harmonics are produced without excess effort."
To practice harmonics, try this:
Finger the low octave notes (start on A or G and work down to D). Blow through the overtone series of whatever note you're on, aiming for the smoothest transition and most centered tone possible (hold each pitch for 2-4 seconds). You should be able to blow the octave and then one or two harmonics above that, depending on the note you're fingering.
Hope this helps!

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 4:15 pm

Thanks for the tips everyone, got some good stuff to practice now! I'd be happy read more as well, if anyone else cares to chime in.

I actually looked for some books on this subject in the local music stores (Sam Ash and Mars) but I couldn't find much, so this thread has been helpful.

Thanks again

Loren

LeeMarsh · Post by **LeeMarsh** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:30 pm

On 2002-07-16 16:09, Loren wrote:
Thanks John

One question, I'm supposed to hit A in the second octave without changing my fingering? You lost me there...Well, I don't really understand harmonics much either....

Practice I understand!
Loren

From my poor memory of physics.

A simple tone is a wave with frequency and length.
To raise the pitch of the tone you shorten the length of the wave or increase in frequency.
The length of the tube controls the length you can use for producing waves. Finger holes shorten the length, raising the pitch.

An octave jump doubles the frequency.
So the second octave d is twice the frequency of the first octave d.
d' = 2d
The third octave d is twice the frequency of the second octave.
d'' = 2d' = 4d

The second octave a is three times the frequency of the first octave d'
a' = 3d

The octave jump takes the controlled length and puts 2 waves into it instead of one.

Use the whole length of the tube for a single wave, you get the first octave key(bell) note, (d).
Put 2 waves in the same length, doubles the frequency and gives you the second octave key note (d').
Put 4 waves in the same length, give you twice the frequency of (d') or 4 times the frequency of the bell note (d), which is the third octave key note (d'').

To get the A you are putting 3 waves in the length or 3 times the frequency of the bell note (d). This is half way between twice the frequency (d') and 4 times the frequency (d''). If you remember there are 12 half step between second octave d' and the third octave d''; then 6 half steps into the second octave from d' is the second octave a.

Does this clarify it? Sometimes its easier to see with drawings, unfortunately I don't have an references for those.

Hope this helps but even if it doesn't you can always ...

_________________

Enjoy Your Music, Lee Marsh 

[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2002-07-18 15:35 ]

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:44 pm

Wow Lee,

Uh, thanks......I think

Loren

ChrisA · Post by **ChrisA** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:10 pm

On 2002-07-18 15:30, LeeMarsh wrote:

To get the A you are putting 3 waves in the length or 3 times the frequency of the bell note (d).

*click!* Ohhh! This explains, suddenly, the 'weird' fingerings of the third octave! (I've been toying with a Bb 'military' fife which plays in the second & third harmonics, and the fingering has been, well, perplexing...)

Thank you muchly.

--ChrisA

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:08 am

If you remember there are 12 half step between second octave d' and the third octave d''; then 6 half steps into the second octave from d' is the second octave a.

Actually, counting 6 half steps up from D gives you a G#:

D - D# - E - F - F# - G - G# - A - A# - B - C - C# - D

which shows that the "3 wavelengths is midways between 2 and 4, therefore the note must be halfways up the 12 note scale" is, at best, an approximation. To get an A, you have to count 7 half steps from D.

What you can conclude is that the note produced by having 3 standing waves inside the tube, rather than the 2 produced by the second octave D, must have a wavelength of 2/3 the length of the D, which corresponds to a frequency that is 1.5 times larger.

With an equal tempered scale that means the number of half steps (N) you raise the pitch must be

(12th root of 2) ^ N = 1.5

or

N = log(1.5) / log (12th root of 2)

N = 7.01955

That this value isn't precisely 7 is an example of the approximative nature of the equal-tempered scale.

Jens

claudine · Post by **claudine** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:44 am

Does that mean, you need a computer-controlled flute to play this stuff?

psychih · Post by **psychih** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:39 am

is it just me or is there a link between math & music?

gcollins · Post by **gcollins** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:17 am

Hey Loren:

Funny you mention having to put more lip into the embouchure. I found this as well. The really artful part of Olwell's embouchure craft is that if you pull back the lip you get a very sweet tone, but stick that lip over and in the embouchure hole, and you will have a reedy ass-kicking monster of a flute tone.

It's fun to be challenged by a flute of that quality.