Turning a German flute into a R&R

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Jon C.
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Turning a German flute into a R&R

Post by Jon C. »

Now that I got your attention...
Image
I was asked to see what I could do with this flute. It was soooo out of tune, the second octave 60 to 80 cents out! The flute could not be played, and it looks like it wasn't played much. The keys are nicely made, and the holes and length of the sections were the same as a small holes R&R 700ish series, so... I got out my set of Rudall reamers and reamed the whole flute. It was amazing, how the flute came to life!
I can't see how they let it out of the factory, without reaming it and tuning it. The wood seems to be cocus or maybe cocobolo. All these years it hasn't been played because it couldn't play. Next I am going to make a longer head joint so you don't have to pull out the tuning slide a 1 1/2! When you push it in it plays well in Eb. :party:
Kind of a fun experment.
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
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greenspiderweb
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Post by greenspiderweb »

Hey, way to go Jon! It must feel good to bring a flute back to life like that.

That's pretty neat, that the owner will then have an Eb and a D flute when you're done too.

Keep up the good work!
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Post by Berti66 »

WOW Jon! You rock.........keep up the good works :D
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Re: Turning a German flute into a R&R

Post by michael_coleman »

Jon C. wrote:Now that I got your attention...
Image
I was asked to see what I could do with this flute. It was soooo out of tune, the second octave 60 to 80 cents out! The flute could not be played, and it looks like it wasn't played much. The keys are nicely made, and the holes and length of the sections were the same as a small holes R&R 700ish series, so... I got out my set of Rudall reamers and reamed the whole flute. It was amazing, how the flute came to life!
I can't see how they let it out of the factory, without reaming it and tuning it. The wood seems to be cocus or maybe cocobolo. All these years it hasn't been played because it couldn't play. Next I am going to make a longer head joint so you don't have to pull out the tuning slide a 1 1/2! When you push it in it plays well in Eb. :party:
Kind of a fun experment.
I hope I can play it soon....please.
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Post by vomitbunny »

Wow that's wicked that you can do that man.
My opinion is stupid and wrong.
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Jon C.
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Post by Jon C. »

Here is the flute with the new head joint.
It sports more of a R&R Emb. hole thanks to the input,and pictures from Rama... :)
Also has the football shaped head. (I wonder who made these first?) Hope it isn't a "Patent head"... :lol:
Plays well at A=440 now, and you can slip on the other head for the Eb tuning.
Image
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
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Post by Blayne Chastain »

What's the intonation like? (when A is 440) I would imagine that once you rebored the flute the intonation changed a bit if not considerably - for the better or worse?

Curious,
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Jon C.
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Post by Jon C. »

McChastain wrote:What's the intonation like? (when A is 440) I would imagine that once you rebored the flute the intonation changed a bit if not considerably - for the better or worse?

Curious,
Hi,
Good question. The flute was originally made for A=450-455? But as described earlier it was SO BAD, as the second octave was out between the first and second ovctave by 80 cents. The flute now plays best around A=440. By re-reaming the entire flute, even the foot joint with the R&R reamers, it has very good intonation at this range. The intonation at A=450 or up in the Eb range has suffered some. But being that it was much worse before, I think I am ahead in the game.
According to Terry McGee's chart on his website, ( a great reference on pitch!) using the measurement from the C# to the Eb hole the flute should be in the A=440 range. I think he has mentioned that a lot of high pitched flutes, played with better intonation at the 440 mark, when the tuning slide is pulled out quite a bit. I don't know if anyone figured out why? (Terry can comment, if he likes...)
Now the flute is reamed out to a R&R similar to Galleghers 700ish series R&R. I think it is the copy of Chris Norman's famous boxwood R&R.
This flute plays best to my estimations, best at A=430 and the measurements of the tone holes match Terry's chart. Not to say that the Gallegher flute is flawed in any way, it is still a better playing flute.(scratching head?)You will see that the foot of the German flute is shorter between the E and Eb/C# holes. This makes those notes play a little less flat.
Considering it was a stab in the dark, I would say the intonation is improved a thousand %! I still want to compare the two flutes, using Terry's very cool excel spread sheet, and see how many errors are in the tuning, but at first glance it is now a playable flute in 440 range, and playable in the Eb range.
Hope this isn't to confusing... ( I am a little confused myself...) :boggle:
Here is a picture of the two flutes along side each other. The lovely Gallegher flute is on loan from our rocket scientist Nelson, it is one of the only flutes made from cocobolo by the maker, (as he is now allergic like me!) :sniffle:
Image
I wonder where I got my idea for the head joint... :oops:
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
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kkrell
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Post by kkrell »

Jon,

Does the football-shaped head provide a deeper chimney for the embouchure hole while avoiding going the route of a raised lip plate?

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Jon C.
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Post by Jon C. »

kkrell wrote:Jon,

Does the football-shaped head provide a deeper chimney for the embouchure hole while avoiding going the route of a raised lip plate?

Kevin Krell
Yup, It gives you a nice deep chimney, with out the weight. This improves the tone. Also, When you are dealing with an existing Barrel that is 27 or 28 mm you can start at that diameter and then balloon out to 29mm then back in to 27 mm. The looks isn't that noticable, if you are not looking for it. I think it looks more trasitional then a raised lip plate. The other option would be the elliptical bore that Terry McGee makes.
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Post by Whistlin'Dixie »

I think you got a good idea there. :party:



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Post by le_koukou »

The "football head" was a very common feature for french flutes circa 1800-1810.

There is one example here
http://www.wichitaband.com/01antiqueflute/0001.jpg
http://www.wichitaband.com/01antiqueflute/0002.jpg

But it seems unlikely those French makers were inspired by a football.... :D

I have no idea why it went out of fashion.
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Jon C.
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Post by Jon C. »

le_koukou wrote:The "football head" was a very common feature for french flutes circa 1800-1810.

There is one example here
http://www.wichitaband.com/01antiqueflute/0001.jpg
http://www.wichitaband.com/01antiqueflute/0002.jpg

But it seems unlikely those French makers were inspired by a football.... :D

I have no idea why it went out of fashion.
Thanks, it's nice that there is a tradition to it. I am kin of a traditionalist...
Leave it to the French! (Right Matt-Paris?)
Maybe it will come back in?
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Post by Matt_Paris »

Jon C. wrote: Thanks, it's nice that there is a tradition to it. I am kin of a traditionalist...
Leave it to the French! (Right Matt-Paris?)
Maybe it will come back in?
Yes, what?? Sorry I was sleeping in my office... :D

Actually my own 1840 english Wrede flute also has some kind of "football head"... Less pronounced though. It is stamped "patent", but it is probably now in the public domain.

(At first I did not understand this football story, I imagined some spherical thing... Our football is quite different ;) )
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Jon C.
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Post by Jon C. »

Matt_Paris wrote:
Jon C. wrote: Thanks, it's nice that there is a tradition to it. I am kin of a traditionalist...
Leave it to the French! (Right Matt-Paris?)
Maybe it will come back in?
Yes, what?? Sorry I was sleeping in my office... :D

Actually my own 1840 english Wrede flute also has some kind of "football head"... Less pronounced though. It is stamped "patent", but it is probably now in the public domain.

(At first I did not understand this football story, I imagined some spherical thing... Our football is quite different ;) )
Is the Wrede flute a nice player?
You kick your round ball, we seldom kick our wierd shaped one, mainly because it is a wierd shape... :D
Go back to sleep!
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
Michael Flatley


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