Scalloped vs non-scalloped?

A forum about Uilleann (Irish) pipes and the surly people who play them.

Scalloped or not?

yes
22
42%
no
30
58%
 
Total votes: 52

User avatar
CJ DIXON
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:14 pm
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Canada

Post by CJ DIXON »

vanfleet wrote:
Instead, pipe makers would undercut the tone hole, working on the inside of the chimney. There have been several threads on that particular tuning technique.
Correct, and there are other techniques as well... scalloping a single tone hole would not be my personal first choice for tuning adjustment. Why disfigure a perfectly good chanter :)

I would like to refocus this thread please. Tuning aside.... do you like the ergonomics and feel of scalloped better then non-scalloped. 314 views and only 33 votes. Please vote all.

Thanks again,
CJ
CJ Dixon Celtic Instruments
www.cjdixon.com
User avatar
billh
Posts: 2159
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:15 am
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Skerries, County Dublin
Contact:

Re: scallops

Post by billh »

vanfleet wrote: However, with the exception of some chanters that seem to have a "flattened" back D area and rounded chanter face in front, I have never seen a chanter with only *some* of the holes scalloped.
Plenty of the older classic chanters have different amounts of scalloping on different notes, some very subtle. The Leo R chanters I've seen have different amounts of scalloping on different holes, too. What I _haven't_ seen is an older chanter made by one of the "top historic makers" that had the _same_ amount of scalloping on all the holes, unless you count "almost none".[1]

So I would disagree with your conclusion. Scalloping, undercutting, fraising, resizing, and moving toneholes are all techniques that affect tuning, but they have different effects. The 'aul fellas seem to have used all of the above techniques.

Bill

1) Well, I have seen a couple with similar scalloping on each note, but the scalloping in these cases looked quite rough and suspiciously as if it were a later modification done with a round file.
This would argue against the idea that pipe makers use scalloping to "tune specific notes." Instead, pipe makers would undercut the tone hole, working on the inside of the chimney. There have been several threads on that particular tuning technique.

I admit I may lack experience, does anyone have another perspective?
User avatar
AlanB
Posts: 966
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
Contact:

Post by AlanB »

I go with Billh,Tom and Patrick. It's a complex technique that done incorrectly can ruin a chanter. I'd hate to think that some myth about scalloping comfort arose to the point that people blame their sloppy slides, pops and rolls on the face of their chanter and proceed to seek comfort with a dowel and sandpaper..god forbid.

My old chanter was unscalloped, lovely and in tune, my present one is scalloped for tuning and tone, and is far superior but was not an easy adjustment so I'd even say that scalloping doesn't make a huge comfort difference.

To be focussed momentarily, I would vote to prefer both, but there isn't a choice for that........
User avatar
PJ
Posts: 5889
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:23 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: ......................................................................................................
Location: Baychimo

Post by PJ »

To provide a better "feel" for the holes, there is another alternative. A few months back I saw a pic of a K&Q chanter. Above and below each tone hole there were small ebony "studs". If anyone can find the photo and re post it, it might be helpful. Anyway, this obviated the need to scallop the tone hole.

Edited to add:

Here it is:
DMQuinn wrote:A half set in mopane. Chanter and drones split up and went separate ways.
Image
PJ
User avatar
djm
Posts: 17853
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:47 am
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Canadia
Contact:

Post by djm »

PJ wrote:Anyway, this obviated the need to scallop the tone hole.
Perhaps you meant, "this obviated the need to scallop the tone holes as an aid to fingering". There seems to be some confusion between people talking about scalloping for the purpose of "feeling" the tone holes, versus scalloping the holes for tuning purposes.

I think Mr. Dixon should clarify the purpose of this poll - is this scalloping for esthetics, or scalloping for tuning?

djm
I'd rather be atop the foothills than beneath them.
User avatar
Cynth
Posts: 6703
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:58 pm
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Iowa, USA

Post by Cynth »

CJ DIXON wrote: I would like to refocus this thread please. Tuning aside.... do you like the ergonomics and feel of scalloped better then non-scalloped. 314 views and only 33 votes. Please vote all.

Thanks again,
CJ
Diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium. ~ Diligence is a very great help even to a mediocre intelligence.----Seneca
User avatar
PJ
Posts: 5889
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:23 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: ......................................................................................................
Location: Baychimo

Post by PJ »

djm wrote:Perhaps you meant, "this obviated the need to scallop the tone holes as an aid to fingering".
Quite right djm. That's exactly what I meant.
PJ
upiper71
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:26 pm

Post by upiper71 »

Personally, I prefer non-scalloped holes on the chanter.

upiper71
User avatar
billh
Posts: 2159
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:15 am
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Skerries, County Dublin
Contact:

Post by billh »

perhaps the small number of votes reflects a feeling that there is something ill-formed about the question?
User avatar
Lorenzo
Posts: 5726
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 6:00 pm
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Oregon, USA

Post by Lorenzo »

The reason I prefer an unscalloped tonehole is because I find the tonehole both easier to seal and easier to distinguish. With a B chanter, and the extra finger stretch required, it seems to be even more important. The Gallagher B chanter I had took me a long time to learn how to seal the Eb note (2nd hole up from bottom). The chanter wasn't exactly scalloped, but the chimneys didn't come right out to the surface with a crisp edge...they were kind of rounded off, smoothed out, plus slightly indented around the surface of the holes. This Froment B chanter I have is not scalloped at all. The edges are very crisp and easy to locate right at the surface.
User avatar
CJ DIXON
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:14 pm
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Canada

Post by CJ DIXON »

Per Billh's recommendation, I have edited my initial post to the following in hopes of clarifying the intention of this thread and as a result to hopefully increase the poll turnout:

"...Scalloping as a means for correcting specific note tuning issues should not be addressed here.

A vote "YES" would mean that you prefer a chanter with uniform scalloping because of the look/feel/style/ergonomics/ease of play.
A vote "NO" would mean you don't like the look/feel/style/ergonomics/ease of play of a scalloped chanter."

I do not know how to edit the actual question in the poll or I would have changed that as well.

Great feedback Lorenzo, thank you. Keep them coming ...
CJ Dixon Celtic Instruments
www.cjdixon.com
Feo
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:39 pm
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Central New Jersey

Post by Feo »

I didn't vote yet because while I like the idea of a scalloped chanter allowing my fingers to fall into place easier, I've never tried such a chanter out yet, so I don't know if my vote would be worth anything ... I don't seem to have much trouble with the spacing of any Uilleann-D chanter I've tried yet..my fingers always seems to find the holes ok ... I even like the idea of trying the ebony bumps on a chanter...guess they could be sanded down if I didn't like them, ha ...

The chanter I'd REALLY like to have scalloping or bumps on would be my Lowland pipe chanter - the spacing is shorter then both the Uilleann and Highland chanter and sometimes gives me fits trying to land my fingers down in the right place.

Im sure that anything Chris makes will make folks happy .. I appreciate that he's trying so hard to make a good bagpipe
User avatar
billh
Posts: 2159
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:15 am
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Skerries, County Dublin
Contact:

Post by billh »

CJ DIXON wrote:Per Billh's recommendation, I have edited my initial post to the following in hopes of clarifying the intention of this thread and as a result to hopefully increase the poll turnout:

"...Scalloping as a means for correcting specific note tuning issues should not be addressed here.

A vote "YES" would mean that you prefer a chanter with uniform scalloping because of the look/feel/style/ergonomics/ease of play.
A vote "NO" would mean you don't like the look/feel/style/ergonomics/ease of play of a scalloped chanter."

I do not know how to edit the actual question in the poll or I would have changed that as well.

Great feedback Lorenzo, thank you. Keep them coming ...
I still think there's a problem here, in that it depends on the scalloping. On aesthetic/feel/ease-of-play grounds, I've seen scalloping that I loved and scalloping that I hated. Doesn't feel like a yes-or-no question, it implies that there is basically only one kind of scalloping.

I certainly do not like uniform scalloping. However I do like a small amount of scalloping.

Because of teaching, I've had a good bit of experience with learners switching from one kind of chanter to another. Those that started with scalloped chanters seem to find un-scalloped ones more difficult, and vice-versa. Some people find that the scalloping helps find/seal the holes, others seem to find that it makes it harder - but again, I am sure it depends tremendously on the particulars of the chanter(s) in question.

Bill
User avatar
Rick
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:00 pm
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Post by Rick »

I voted NO!

Feels like there's a bit of chanter missing. ;)

But seriously..., what lorenzo said!
Image
User avatar
rorybbellows
Posts: 3195
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:50 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
Location: the cutting edge

Post by rorybbellows »

CJ, would the results of this poll influence the way you make your chanters


RORY
I'm Spartacus .
Post Reply