Advice from Abell players and owners, please

khl · Post by **khl** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:19 pm

I've been plotting and saving and playing and comparing and have finally determined that I am going to order a set of Abells (D,C,Eb,Bb,A). I have a Blackwood D already. Buying this set is an investment of a lifetime and I want to get this right. I don't have access to people who have these to be able to play a variety so any advice you have to give as I work with this would be appreciated. Anything you recommend I do, don't do, ask for, etc.?

One thing in particular that those who have played both Delrin and Blackwood could help with. I'm considering getting the set in Delrin (and I'm corresponding with Chris Abell about this decision). Here's why I'm leaning towards Delrin:

My wife and I are both professors at a small college on the north shore of Oahu. We travel a fair amount and may have study abroad opportunities that take us from one place to another. In the future we could be in Mainland China for a few months or Asia in general, or in Israel for a year, or various places on the Mainland (where we could be teaching in different climates from very high humidity, to low, from warm temperatures to cold--all within a few months) and so on. I would be concerned about taking the whistles with me and having to carry or look for almond oil. On the other hand, if I were to leave some of them home unnatended to for several months, I'd be concerned about what might happen with their not being oiled, either in a very dry climate (if we moved) or in a more humid climate. Swabbing is no problem at all. I suppose in the long run it is concern for the whistles being oiled right, of my goofing something up and ruining a whistle or a whole set, and of simply having one more thing to worry about in a life with lots of things going on.

Any one have clips of a Delrin Abell? I know whistles vary, but this would still be helpful. I asked about Delrin in general before here: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ght=delrin Any further comments would be good.

Again, help with any of this would be appreciated. Feel free to post here, PM or email me also--whatever is convenient for you.

livethe question · Post by **livethe question** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:15 pm

My Delrin Abell high D is enroute to a friend. Perhaps he can be persuaded to make a clip for you. I still have a Blackwood high D as well as the Delrin. By a slight margin, I prefer the Blackwood, but it's close. I'm going to have a C tube made and I'm leaning toward having it made for the Delrin whistle.......for the reasons you've given.

I really like my Delrin Busman. It has a softer, more flute like sound that I want at times. The Abells and the Delrin Busman compliment each other. ("hey Busman you really sound neat; yeah Abell, you rock"

)

Does anyone know how a blackwood whistle would likely get by if taken to a really dry climate, like the Grand Canyon?

jim

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:08 pm

I have had various wood whistles through the years as well as wood on custom knife handles that I collect. I am in NY and have radiator heat. I have left off wooden whistles and wooden knife handles, preferring metals and plastics, due to some problems. I have had an ivory (notoriously unstable) handle crack shortly after shipment in perfect shape from down south and have had a red lancewood whistle crack after some time in my apartment. I therefore now exclusively use metal and delrin whistles and collect knives with Japanese style wrapped (cord over full tang metal) or micarta or G-10 handles - all seem impervious to whatever conditions my NYC apartment and travel may bring.

That said, blackwood seems to be a uniquely stable dense wood which has held up just as well for me under the same conditions. I've had a blackwood Sweet Kilhoury C for years and have long since stopped oiling it - it remains perfect. Same can be said for my blackwood Bflat/A set, which does get an occasional oiling due to more use.

As far as Abell delrin v. blackwood - my former delrin (I believe referenced above) has sounded about the same as one other blackwood and slightly better than yet another. Overall, I'd think that it's more other things than the materials with respect to Abells. The Abell D delrin is terrific and so is the Abell blackwood Bflat/A set. Others may have had different experiences. (Jessie prefers blackwood to delrin, e.g.) From my own, looks like you can't go wrong wither way?

Philo

khl · Post by **khl** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:37 pm

Jim and Philo,

Thanks for your responses--very helpful.

Any way to describe what the subtle difference in tone is? Jim, you describe the Busman delrin as a bit more flute like in comparison to the Abell, or could it be in comparison to other Busman's as well? Is the subtle difference in a Delrin and Blackwood Abell perhaps that the former is a tad more flute-like and the latter a bit more reed-like? I know I'm asking for the impossible in describing the sounds here.

I'd welcome others to respond also.

Cheers.

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:50 pm

Any decent clarinet or oboe player will haul their wood instruments all over. If they crack (very rarely if they're taken care of), they are pinned and fixed, or replaced. These are $2500+++ instruments.
My bass clarinet (2 huge chunks of grenadilla wood) has been from the desert to the rain-forest, has 2 pinned cracks, and sounds better than ever.
I suggest going for the sound, without any compromise. If Delrin sounds better, do it.
All things being equal, I guess you know which you would like.
Congradulations!!!

cpelsor · Post by **cpelsor** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:25 am

Well, I have played Abell's in both Blackwood and Delrin, and I can honestly say that there really isn't a difference in sound. The quality of workmanship is equal, so I don't think you can go wrong either way. I chose the delrin because I am a lazy basmati and didn't want to worry about maintaining wood.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:30 am

I have spoken with you privately about this before, but I thought of something else. While delrin is harder to lathe-turn than wood (because its shavings are strings rather than chips, and it clogs tools), delrin files off much more easily, so if a maker uses the same force to file delrin, he will take off too much material. The delrin Abell I had was filed very sharp (on the blade), and it was loud and cloudy in tone. I tried for a year to like it, to learn to play it its own way, and I never got there.

I LOVE my Madagascar rosewood Abell, but I have played a number of wooden Abells that I didn't like, because they were too loud and not sweet enough. When I talked to Chris about the trend toward louder and away from sweeter that his instruments have followed, he explained that he prefers a stronger tone, and he believes nothing is lost. I think he's very wrong.

Wood grows into its form and resonates with the music that is played into it over time. It grows and matures. I think getting a delrin set is a mistake.

I had a delrin Olwell flute. The dimensions were the same as his wooden flutes, but it lacked soul. It was also far too heavy (delrin is more dense than wood). It smelled like plastic.

That said, if you go ahead with it (in delrin or in wood), ask for a soft blade, rather than a sharp one, with a gentle bevel. The tone will be sweeter.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:25 am

I have an Abell blackwood set of just the kind you are looking to buy. I can make a few points.

First, make sure that the Abell beak is for you. They tend to be a bit squat. I myself prefer a bit of a longer beak although it doesn't really put me off much.

My set, and I believe this is a feature of Abells, is remarkably stable and will withstand lack of oiling for considerable periods if they are not being played much. If I'm playing mine a lot, I'd also be feeding them regularly.

My F is easily the best F whistle I own but my others aren't necessarily better than other wooden (and non-wooden) whistles I own. For example, in D I prefer Busman and Thin Weasel although the Abell would be close enough in quality not to be bother me if it were the only wooden D I owned. But I think Busman, Thin Weasel and Grinter have better reputations for consistency.

The Abells come in a case which is good for transportation. I live in a humid climate and I make sure I keep the case open when storing them at home, as I do with all my wooden whistles and flutes.

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:35 am

I believe the Abells do not "come with a case;" last I looked a case was an additional $40. As I purchased my set second hand, it came with the case, and it's a terrificly useful and protective case - he makes a shortened padded sleeve for the mouthpiece so you don't have to go fishing down deep for it...red velvet lined...

Philo

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:40 am

PhilO wrote:I believe the Abells do not "come with a case;" last I looked a case was an additional $40. As I purchased my set second hand, it came with the case, and it's a terrificly useful and protective case - he makes a shortened padded sleeve for the mouthpiece so you don't have to go fishing down deep for it...red velvet lined...

Philo

Thanks for clarifying Phil. I bought my set 2nd hand too, so I wasn't aware the case was optional.

cpelsor · Post by **cpelsor** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:47 am

JessieK wrote: Wood grows into its form and resonates with the music that is played into it over time. It grows and matures. I think getting a delrin set is a mistake.

Er, following that line of logic, it can be said that repeatedly playing like sh*te would, over time, make the whistle sh*te and unusable because it plays best only when misplayed...

I guess it is a good thing I went Delrin...

jbarter · Post by **jbarter** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:54 am

cpelsor wrote:
JessieK wrote: Wood grows into its form and resonates with the music that is played into it over time. It grows and matures. I think getting a delrin set is a mistake.
Er, following that line of logic, it can be said that repeatedly playing like sh*te would, over time, make the whistle sh*te and unusable because it plays best only when misplayed...

I guess it is a good thing I went Delrin...

I remember reading some scientific research into violins a while back. They were trying to find out why Strads which had been constantly played sounded better than ones which hadn't and were just put on display. The scientist found out that the vibrations caused the molecules in the wood to alter or realign (I forget the full technical gubbins) giving a better tone and sound. Perhaps the same thing happens with wooden flutes and whistles.

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:55 am

I have Bb, C, D, and Eb Abell whistles in blackwood; the D, C, and Eb are close to 20 years old and the Bb is about 12 years old. I haven't oiled any of these whistles in at least 10 years and I've been living all this time in the northeastern US and southern Canada, where winters are very dry and summers are very humid, and the weather often changes dramatically from day to day. I have never had a crack in any of these instruments, nor have I had any other problems. I think you'd be fine with blackwood. It's true that there's no real difference in tone between blackwood and delrin, but if you're going to spend that kind of money, why go for plastic?

cpelsor · Post by **cpelsor** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:59 am

bradhurley wrote:It's true that there's no real difference in tone between blackwood and delrin, but if you're going to spend that kind of money, why go for plastic?

Wood allergies...

scheky · Post by **scheky** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:03 am

cpelsor wrote:
bradhurley wrote:It's true that there's no real difference in tone between blackwood and delrin, but if you're going to spend that kind of money, why go for plastic?
Wood allergies...

Agreed. My Blackwood Thin Weasel is the only wooden instrument I haven't gotten a reaction to. I'm slowly realizing that this is likely why I had to stop playing for the last 5 years or so (due to sudden and unexplainable shortness of breath every time I tried to play). One day with another wooden whistle put me back into the breathing troubles. Two days away, and all was well again.

I'll stick to metal and plastic, and the seemingly fine Weasel (though other blackwood whistles seem to also have an effect on me). Likewise, I'm happy trying my hand at flute (poorly I may add) on my M&E Delrin.

After so long away, the fingers may remember a lot, but I'm quite the beginner again. Oh well, it's all fun.