OT: Anyone ever play a Koza Duda from the Ukraine?

Jon C. · Post by **Jon C.** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:08 am

Hi,
A friend gave me a Koza Duda (Goat Pipe), a folk instrument from Ukraine. They said it had Celtic roots. It has bamboo pipes with horn mounts.
Has anyone played one of these?

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:55 am

Well, more accurately, it has Indo-European Roots. Bagpipes as a family of instruments have their origins in the middle east or perhaps northwest india, no one knows for sure. The instrument as a CONCEPT - a melody pipe tied into a mouth-inflated bag with or without one or more drones - has been around for 2000 years, maybe even longer, and it spread to northwest europe by the end of the 11th century when they begin appearing in illustrations almost everywhere west of the Urals and north of the Sahara.

The Ukrainians are not Celts, although they share a common linguistic ancestor since they are an Indo-European people. Like most of the rest of Europe, they would have had some commerce with the coastal countries of the Black Sea, Asia Minor, North Africa, and possibly Arabia, and south Asia - all places with ethnic groups who were fond of bagpipes at one time or another and in that they are not unusual.

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:03 am

The other thing is I thought the Koza Duda is/was a Polish instrument, or perhaps the Ukrainians have the same name for their own variety. You might try contacting sean an piobaire, he has a large collection of pipes from all over Europe and might lend you some insights on how to play and care for your find.

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:38 am

Have a look here:

http://www.hotpipes.com/main.html

I don't see anything from Ukraine but if you want more information you could contact Sean Folsom directly.

djm · Post by **djm** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:57 am

The name "Celts" comes from the Greek "Keltoi" who were prevalent north of Greece (and would eventually conquer large portions of Greece) so it is quite possible that Slavic countries would know bagpipes as coming from a "Celtic" tradition. Most of Europe has some form of bagpipes up from the western Mediteranean, so no-one seems able to lay claim to an original bagpipe. I'm sure Jon C. could do some research on what the Ukranians believe was the history of their pipes and find some interesting stories.

djm

sean an piobaire · Post by **sean an piobaire** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:23 pm

Hey Pat! Thanks for the referral! It's true that I don't HAVE a Ukrainian DUDA but I have a friend who just bought one off ebay on August 16th 2005. This DUDA was made in the traditional manner by Mykhailo Tafichuk
of Bukovets Selo ( Selo=village) in the Ukraine. It was advertised that a CD of trad tunes was available for purchase, however my friend, Bill Campbell told me that it was not immediately forthcoming, but he did get the bagpipe! So Bill's email klezmer@sc.rr.com And get the updated info. I have some info on Pavel Stepanov that makes the Russian Volynkas and a young piper in Kursk, Russian Federation that plays the Volynka in an Russian Art Rock band, his name is Pavel Dronov. Then there's the the Mari-el Shuvyr and Erik Juzykain and the Belorus Duda and so on....
Now I was told by an Irishman named Michael Roche, that the Cul-De (Irish "Celtic" Church) had a mission at Chernobyl, long before the melt-down, and that Chernobyl means Black Pool like the name Dublin....BTW the Culdees had missions all over Europe, St Gallen, Rheims, Bobbio, Regensberg, etc.
the point of mentioning this is that you have a layer of Irish cultural diffusion during the Middle Ages. Saints, Scholars, and Galloglach (foreign soldiers), so you don't have to JUST make the ancient roots bit you gotta make the Medieval spread-out too! Your Bagpipe Reporter Sean Folsom

Jan Erik · Post by **Jan Erik** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:42 pm

The city is named after the Ukrainian word for mugwort (Artemisia vulgaris), which is "chornobyl". The word is a combination of chornyi (??????, black) and byllia (?????, grass blades or stalks), hence it literally means black grass or black stalks -- though no parts of mugwort or wormwood are black. The plants are a pale green, and wormwood has a whitish tinge from a fine fuzz on the bottom of its leaves.

Jon C. · Post by **Jon C.** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:33 pm

Thanks for the info and history lesson...
I will do some research on the size of the Celtic influence.

djm · Post by **djm** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:11 pm

JonC wrote:size of the Celtic influence

Careful, now. This is a family forum.

djm

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:49 pm

djm wrote:
JonC wrote:size of the Celtic influence
Careful, now. This is a family forum.

djm

Right... and don't forget, Padre Patrick roams these pages... best not to get his ire up.

sean an piobaire · Post by **sean an piobaire** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:37 pm

I'm glad to be corrected about Chernobyl. I knew the real story could come out with the right bait..... Mike Roche is in Urlingford, Co. Tipperary(A Long Way To) and is not on the internet.... could somebody contact him?
He plays whistle and bodhran and has a degree in botany from UCD and is an amateur historian etc. He needs to know that he's laboring under an illusion...about some Blackpools, et al. There is a Ukrainian woman with a motorcycle that has a whole internet photo tour of the land around the reactor(s) site and it is very interesting and sad. Going back to piping... your inaccurate reporter Sean Folsom

Baglady · Post by **Baglady** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:51 pm

I had a discussion with Elizabeth Vatn, a Norwegian piper very involved in re-establishing the Norwegian bagpipe and it's music. She said that there are 3 bagpipe traditions, the Celtic or Western European, the Nordic or northern Eurasian, and the Eastern. She went to Estonia to research the possible roots of the Norwegian bagpipe. My Father-in-law has a degree in Russian and he says that the Nordic and Russo cultures are closely intertwined.

The more research I do on the bagpipe and it's music the stronger my conviction becomes that the bagpipe is indigenous to many cultures. Its technology is so rudimentary that any old shepherd could have gone out and 'invented' a bagpipe, and probably did.

uilleannfinlander · Post by **uilleannfinlander** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:45 am

If duda made in Tseck interest , i have some info about.
I met one player at folk festival in Finland, he ordered his pipest straigth from maker .
Weird thing indeed, bellows position, drone on your back,screws to tune in chanter.... same way to play as NSP
(I tried to play....must say that need first some knowledge and intrest about music of eastern side of europe..not in my taste)

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:48 am

One out on eBAY:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ukrainian-Bagpipe-D ... dZViewItem

sean an piobaire · Post by **sean an piobaire** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:35 am

HI Jim! Yes This DUDA was on eBAY before at the same time the Traditional DUDA (I mentioned in the previous post) sold. I don't know if that alternative one sold last month, or this is second offering, by this maker. . It is a non-traditional instrument of the NEW and IMPROVED variety. It would great if it works chromaticaly over 2 octaves, as advertised. The maker plays the SOPILKA, a chromatic whistle, so he is probably (I suppose) modeling the chanter fingering after that whistle. The high price of $500 USD reflects the high hopes that the maker has for his inovation. So good luck and if anyone buys it, write me, I'd love to know if it "works". Piper in the Dark Sean Folsom