America Looking in the Mirror

[brianc]

Anyone know who this is?

[Cynth]

Well, I made a post on Tuesday at about 5:30 PM (C&F time) saying something stupid and Dale said then that it looked like it might be the worst case scenario. So Dale knew it then. I admit he is a clever fellow but surely FEMA should have known it by then as well. See, that's where they're really getting into trouble. To say they didn't know there was a problem until yesterday, that is just plain dumb.


Edited to say that FEMA was refering to the situation at the convention center, not the overall situation. So my comment about FEMA is not right and I apologize to them.

[s1m0n]

s1m0n---Yes, I agree. It seems like they could have found reliable volunteers to drive them. But I don't know where they would have taken people. I think there would be churches that could act as shelters. I guess that's what should have been set up too. But then......Well, anyway I do think it will be a good question.

I've been a part of a mass evacuation--when I was a kid, a train's worth of tank cars containing Chlorine derailed and burned, and the entire city of mississauge was evacuated as a precaution.

The entire operation was accomplished in less than about 8 hours; those who couldn't stay with friends or relatives were housed in church basements and school gyms, with no more than minimal confusion. It was on the radio and tv, and police went door to door ordering everyone to leave and checking that they were out. Police and emergency people stayed behind to maintain security.

Granted, very few or none of the evacuees were armed, which cut down on the kinds of craziness seen here, but that's as much a response to the power vacuum and breakdown in social order as it is anything else. If there had been an orderly, thought-out evacuation plan, the craziness wouldn't have occurred.

~~

However, for whatever reason the entire evacuation plan consisted of "every man for himself!"

[brianc]

General Evacuation Guidelines - City of New Orleans Emergency Preparedness (from their website)

General evacuation for disasters apply to both natural (hurricane, flood, thunderstorm, tornado) and man-made (chemical and fire). If you are told to EVACUATE you should move to a place designated by public officials.

Follow these steps:

Stay calm.
Take your disaster supply kit.
Remember as you leave your house to do the following:
- Turn off lights, household gas appliances, heating, air conditioning, and ventilation systems.
- Leave refrigerator/freezer on.
- Lock house.
Only use the phone in case of an emergency, injury, or illness. If you must use the phone, keep calls brief.
Do not listen to rumors. Turn on your radio or television for up-to-date information from public officials during an emergency.
Use only one vehicle for your family. If you have room, assist any neighbors that may need a ride.
Tune to Emergency Alerting System 870 AM or 101.9 FM radio stations for reports about evacuation routes, conditions, etc. Use those travel routes specified.
Drive safely. Traffic will be heavy. Law enforcement officials along the route will help with traffic.
If you need a ride, try to go with a neighbor, friend, or relative.
Let others know when you leave and where you are going.
Make arrangements for pets. Animals are not allowed in public shelters. Pet carriers are recommended along with pet supplies.
Estimated evacuation drive times* from New Orleans to:
Alexandria 16 hours
Baton Rouge 8 hours
Lafayette 8 hours
Lake Charles 16 hours
Shreveport 20 hours
Hattiesburg 8 hours
Jackson 24 hours
Meridian 16 hours
*Travel time during an evacuation is four times longer than in normal conditions.


State Emergency Alert Broadcasting System
Greater N.O. WWL 870 AM
WLMG 101.9 FM
Baton Rouge WJBO 1150 AM
WFMF 102.5 FM
Lafayette KVOL 1330 AM
KTDY 99.9 FM
Lake Charles KLCL 1470 AM
KHLA 99.5 FM
Shreveport KWKH 1130 AM
& 94.5 FM
Alexandria KZMZ 580 AM
& 96.9 FM
Monroe KNOX 540 AM
& 101.9 FM

*********

That's it.

[Joseph E. Smith]

Brianc, where've you been?

[jGilder]

Brianc, where've you been?

He gave at least 2 farewell speeches... where were you?

[OnTheMoor]

CNN just reported on this, a blog from downtown New Orleans,
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

[susnfx]

To say they didn't know there was a problem until yesterday, that is just plain dumb.

I think there's a misunderstanding here...from what I've watched and read, the head of FEMA was saying they didn't know about the situation at the convention center until Thursday, not the situation of the entire area.

Susan

[Blackwood]

I'd bet you were right, but for the administrations horror of admitting error. He's likely resign to "spend more time with his family."

More likely he'll get promoted.....

[daveboling]

Although I don't feel I personally am qualified to answer this, my husband is. When my husband was stationed in Ft. Lewis, WA, his entire post could be deployed to Korea within 24 hours in order to repel a North Korean attack on the South...this including water, MREs, and whatever is needed to wage a full scale war in Korea.

I agree with you that the troops could have been there in a much shorter time with the supplies they needed. Perhaps I could have stated it more clearly that the troops could not have gotten there as quickly when they were bringing supplies for thousands of refugees, in addition to what they required for themselves.

dave boling

[Cynth]

Granted, very few or none of the evacuees were armed, which cut down on the kinds of craziness seen here, but that's as much a response to the power vacuum and breakdown in social order as it is anything else. If there had been an orderly, thought-out evacuation plan, the craziness wouldn't have occurred.

I agree with that. I don't think civil order had broken down yet during the evacuation period. I think the people who wanted to go could have been gotten out peacefully and we know that, at the very least, everyone who went to the Superdome wanted to leave. I can only hope that people will be asking about this and we can see what the reasoning was.

Yes, I did misunderstand. Thank you, Susan.

[susnfx]

Large oil spill...and now a bus carrying evacuees has flipped over on the freeway. Apart from a nuclear warhead being aimed at the city, what else could happen!?!

I'd also like to add how impressed I am with all the helicopter pilots and rescuers who are being lowered by cables to houses, rooftops, and lifting out people to safety. And they do it over and over and over... Thank God for them.

CNN.com has an article about Gen. Honore, the man Mayor Nagin calls "a John Wayne dude.."
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/honore ... index.html
Susan

[rebl_rn]

I'll share my thoughts on this; somewhat disjointed and I'm sure that some will be unpopular.

FEMA has made mistakes in this, there's no doubt. The President has made mistakes. So has the state of LA and the city of NO. I'm sure mistakes have been made, not just because of what's been shown on TV, but because mistakes are always going to be made in disasters such as this - perhaps especially in disasters such as this. The people in charge are still people and as such are prone to do stupid things like make mistakes. The very sad, sad thing in this case is the mistakes have cost lives and caused suffering.

Something has bothered me about the criticism of the response effort. I've had a hard time putting it into words and I don't know if I'll do any better this time. I think it's going to come across sounding mean and callous, which is not my intent. But here it is.

People have seemed to have the expectation that, because this is America after all, everyone should be rescued/helped as soon as they need/want to be. I'm sorry, but that is just absolutely impossible in a disaster of this magnitude. Sometimes people have to wait. People will suffer as they wait. Sometimes people die waiting. I don't like it, it's not fair, and it shouldn't have to happen, but it does. Maybe it's the instant gratification that we as a society have gotten used to. We want everything NOW.

Again, let me say that I believe things could've happened faster and gone better and many more people gotten help quicker than they have. Someone did screw up here. But that's not the point I'm trying to make. I don't blame victims for being upset when they haven't gotten pulled off their roofs, I guess what bothers me is that the general public seems to be so shocked that people have to wait. While it saddens me, it doesn't surprise me. FEMA people aren't miracle workers, and these things take time.

While the majority of the victims in NO are poor (black and white), and had no way out of the city (in which the city failed in the evacuation planning in my opinion), I have also seen many interviews with people who just decided to ride out the storm because "I didn't think it would be this bad". Even though they were told to evacuate because it WAS going to be this bad, and they had the means to leave, they stayed anyway. And, now, they're pissed because the government hasn't responded fast enough to their needs. Now, I feel for their suffering and I think the government has a duty to help, but, you know, part of me also thinks that these people have brought it upon themselves (again, not the people who didn't have a way out, just the ones who chose not to leave).

This also to me shows how the public in general has their heads hidden in the sand when it comes to preparing for emergencies. I'm in emergency preparedness for my public health department, and I can't get my co-workers to make up home disaster kits and emergency plans. At the FEMA training I was at 2 weeks ago, one of the instructors asked how many of us in the room had home disaster kits and maybe about 10-15 out of 75 raised their hands. The training I was at was "All Hazards: Preparedness and Response", and the people taking the course weren't even prepared. Trying to talk to the general public about this kind of stuff has been like beating your head against the wall. People always say, "oh, yeah, that's a good idea, I should do that one of these days," and promptly forget about it. Maybe one of the good things that will come from this disaster is people will plan better. Of course, the cynic in me says, no, people will say, "well, thank God I don't live in New Orleans, I don't have to worry about that here."

Well, I could go on and on but I'll shut up now. Take my opinions for what they are worth, which is certainly not a whole lot.

Beth

[Cynth]

Beth, I had meant to comment on an earlier post you made but then it didn't happen.

I think there are plenty of people who feel that there are many things we don't know. People are upset and critical that is true. And it just has to be that way I think when we see such suffering. There are just a lot of questions and they can't be answered right now. I also think that no one is talking about mistakes by people working to help people. I think these would be mistakes on a real high level. I don't know. I agree with you that the evacuation plan is where I would start asking questions first.

I do think that it would be a real battle to get people to prepare ahead of time for an emergency. And people who won't leave are a serious problem.

I think you have good points. I just hope that afterwards there can be some accurate discussions of what was involved, instead of people just taking sides based on whether they liked the government before this happened. If you have some books to recommend about situations like this that would be helpful to read in trying to understand the logistics of dealing with such a catastrophe, I would be very interested in their titles.

[rebl_rn]

I just hope that afterwards there can be some accurate discussions of what was involved, instead of people just taking sides based on whether they liked the government before this happened.

I totally agree with you, Cynth. You can have great discussions on what went wrong and what went right without taking sides or placing blame, and that's what needs to happen after this is all over so that lessons can be learned and we can be better prepared next time.

I don't have any titles for you off the top of my head, and all my resources are at work, but I'll let you know when I think of something.

Beth