Katrina sinking in.

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:45 pm

I just can't believe this about shooting rescuers. It is sort of like when people shoot firemen at fires. Just incomprehensible. Do you think some people have just lost their minds? I wonder if this has been observed in other disasters or studied.

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:45 pm

The Weekenders wrote:I ain't yelling. They are in fact, deployed in Iraq, and for longer terms than they intended.

Yep, no doubt.

I would disagree about rebuilding. It's a major, important and historical city made up of more than bricks, mortar and wood. Of course they will rebuild, but, like Amsterdam, we are going to need a major NATIONAL approach to securing it from harm. It's hard to say though, just how much because, like our earthquakes, there is only so much anyone can do in the face of the power of nature.

I agree with you, you just can't let those places go.

It's very wet and they have to maybe stop burying people there.

Well, I'm sure you know this, but they bury "above ground" in NO, just because it is so low and wet.

Tom

scottielvr · Post by **scottielvr** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:01 pm

Late last night CNN ran a phone interview with a nurse at that hospital; they were basically on a first-aid basis, running out of everything needed for even the most basic patient care, such as water. The staff had had no rest, let alone sleep. You could hear the strain in her voice, and toward the end of the interview she was trying desperately not to go hysterical, I think. They had no idea whatsoever when or how they were going to get the patients out of there. Perhaps there's some hope that security will begin to improve today. Astonishing that a few people could be surrounded by so much death and suffering -- and think only of ways to add to it.

Anderson Cooper, usually so flippant and edgy, was in a small coastal town filming with a search and rescue crew; his description of the sights (and smells) in this place, as they went from one shattered house to the next, finding bodies, entire families drowned, was gut-wrenching. All they could do was scrawl a terse note of body count on each door, and move on.

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:11 pm

The ingredients of panic are the perception of 1) imminent peril, and 2) a narrowing window of opportunity to escape.

Under these conditions, a percentage of any population will panic, and there isn't much of a way to tell in advance who will do what and to what effect.

In NO right now, these conditions exist: the peril is real and for many the window is narrowing--two days after the storm, people are still dying. People are, as a result, panicking. They're doing whatever it is that they think will enhance their odds of surviving, even if it's in fact counter-productive for themselves or for the population as a whole.

Waiting patiently for rescue starts looking like a less attractive option when no rescue comes and people start dying around you.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:14 pm

TomB wrote:\
It's very wet and they have to maybe stop burying people there.
Well, I'm sure you know this, but they bury "above ground" in NO, just because it is so low and wet.

Tom

I guess I remember reading that in an Anne Rice novel, now that you mention it, family crypts. It sure explains the shots of caskets washing up on the beach. On the one hand, you want to say, well, they shouldn't even do that. On the other hand, you don't want this ever to happen again, by better levees etc etc... Beats me...

The news account is heartbreaking.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:17 pm

Cynth wrote:I just can't believe this about shooting rescuers. It is sort of like when people shoot firemen at fires. Just incomprehensible. Do you think some people have just lost their minds? I wonder if this has been observed in other disasters or studied.

It hasn't happened lately, but firemen, police and even meter readers used to get shot at in the poorest part of Richmond (North Richmond, five miles from the Weekender compound) in the early 90s. No catastrophe, just business as usual, though. Locals were always surprised that a bigger deal wasn't made of it..

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:59 pm

jsluder wrote:I heard on the news this morning that they had to suspend the evacuation of the Superdome because someone was shooting at the rescue helicopters which were bringing people from the city to the dome for evacuation. I guess we know what the looted guns are being used for now.

I heard that, too. I don't understand it at all. Sheer madness.

BillChin · Post by **BillChin** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:06 pm

Cynth wrote:Gee, Bill, I must say that I really got a very vivid picture in my mind when I read those words. That last verse adds a whole different point of view I wouldn't have thought about.

What I thought of when I heard the interview was the perspective of being on the ground. From the ground you would only see and hear the helicopter, and maybe a few of the other people flashing lights asking for rescue. Perhaps the radio announcers told people to flash a light if you needed rescue. You might only have a few batteries and little strength. And then the helicopter flies away. Just typing this little bit seems difficult--I can not imagine living it. The perspective of the last verse is "oh my God, I was picked up, but there are hundreds of others down there who haven't been and might not ever be."

The reports about people shooting at the helicopters amazes me--I wrote the song Wednesday afternoon.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:51 pm

...from MoveOn.org

The Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Red Cross are scrambling to find shelter for the displaced.

This morning, we've launched an emergency national housing drive to connect your empty beds with hurricane victims who desperately need a place to wait out the storm. You can post your offer of housing (a spare room, extra bed, even a decent couch) and search for available housing online at:

http://www.hurricanehousing.org

Housing is most urgently needed within reasonable driving distance (about 300 miles) of the affected areas in the Southeast, especially New Orleans.

Charlene · Post by **Charlene** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:08 pm

Fox news just said Fats Domino stayed in his house in NO to ride out the storm. He hasn't been heard from since the hurricane.

susnfx · Post by **susnfx** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:34 pm

Charlene wrote:Fox news just said Fats Domino stayed in his house in NO to ride out the storm. He hasn't been heard from since the hurricane.

CNN.com reports friends saw him on his balcony (not recently) and were hopeful everything was fine.

Susan

brianormond · Post by **brianormond** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:56 pm

-This is another demonstration to me that any of us with decent housing, health, regular nutrition and good companionship are already kings and queens upon the earth. Everything else is an extra.

Fats Domino update: I just read Fats was rescued by boat.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:23 am

The hardest thing about dealing with this disaster is that, in so many ways, it just isn't typical so there is really no past experience to draw on. For example, after a Tsunami, people can return to their home areas fairly quickly and rebuilding can take place quickly, you don't have to drain the area first. Also, in most states of emergency, looting is out completely because it is always profiteering. Here it could simply be a matter of survival.

I wondered intitially why looting wasn't being treated in the usual way which is zero tolerance shoot-to-kill. Then I realised that ordinary folks swept out of their homes would have no food or water and nowhere to get either from legally. It appears that the 'ordinary' approach to looting is on the way:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... U&refer=us

This scares me. It would be fine, insofar as it ever is, to adopt zero tolerance if you had effectice communications and you could announce a massive legal relief effort effective now and the zero tolerance policy simultaneously throughout the city. But would there be any way of doing this?

jGilder · Post by **jGilder** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:11 am

The Weekenders wrote: I would disagree about rebuilding. It's a major, important and historical city made up of more than bricks, mortar and wood. Of course they will rebuild, but, like Amsterdam, we are going to need a major NATIONAL approach to securing it from harm. It's hard to say though, just how much because, like our earthquakes, there is only so much anyone can do in the face of the power of nature.

Rebuilding NO might be what finally will bring an end to the war in Iraq. The money and resources needed would have to come from somewhere, and Iraq is somewhere that uses up a lot of money and resources.

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:39 am

jGilder wrote: The money and resources needed would have to come from somewhere, and Iraq is somewhere that uses up a lot of money and resources.

Maybe that's why the administration is so weirdly paralysed, like they have no idea what to do. Katrina's just taken the TBird away, and they don't want ot acknowlege it.