Katrina sinking in.

[Dale]

A small comfort. My daughter talked to her apartment-mates who confirm that their apartment is still there in Hattiesburg. No power or water. But it's there.

[Cynth]

I heard somewhere that this was a once in 500 years situation. I think it is sort of like the "big one" in California, except this happened now.

It seems that there is only so much money and, even though we know the "big one" is going to happen, on a daily basis that money is needed to save lives as well so then people have to decide what is more critical. If the "big one" happens in your lifetime, then the decisions seem maybe not good. If the "big one" didn't happen in your lifetime, then it seems good for the money to have gone for what seem to be important social programs that feed people, provide medical care, etc.

To actually be ready for the "big one", I think, would require huge warehouses full of trailers, food, water, helicopters, boats, hospital tents. And all these things would have to be kept in good condition, replaced regularly. Huge numbers of people, for whom there would normally be no work, would have to be on stand by.

When the "big one" hits California, I would think it would be like this too. And I do have a friend there who has some rucksacks on hand with essential things because she assumes she will be on her own for some period of time in a disaster.

I haven't really heard criticism of the Red Cross or FEMA on the news, Weekenders. Perhaps I've not seen much.

The loss of civil order is, I guess, the result of a not very good decision---to pull the police off the streets and put them on search and rescue----although one that is understandable given the number of people stranded without water. If a person has lost everything and there is not much chance of getting anything soon, I'm sure the best of us might see a busted window, or bust one, and say I need some stuff. Stuff to eat, stuff to sell, stuff to trade, whatever. The trouble is it leads to worse things, people get frenzied, you get shop owners shooting people, looters shooting each other over a pair of jeans, looters robbing people passing by, mobs, riots, etc. It snowballs and people start getting killed. I had not thought about this much, but I believe now I could sort of understand the idea of shooting looters right off the bat regardless of the situation. More people will die if you don't stop it right away. I don't know what they can do now.

I really have no facts, nor am I trying to argue anything. It does seem as though the police, for example, would have had gasoline and food and water set by because they would likely be needed even in a much smaller hurricane. And the police will always have to stay in the disaster area. So that seems strange. But a lot of other things don't seem that strange to me. I think there are logistics things that we probably just can't know about.

The number of people that have lost everything and have no prospects for the future is almost more than a person can take in. I know this has happened for various reasons to huge groups of people before, but not in this country during my lifetime I guess.

One bright thing is that there are different cooperative associations for colleges, universities and the like who work together. I think that at some point, students who were going to schools that can't open sometime soon are likely to be able to be placed in another school. The school where my husband works talked about that yesterday.

[Dale]

I heard somewhere that this was a once in 500 years situation. I think it is sort of like the "big one" in California, except this happened now.

It seems that there is only so much money and, even though we know the "big one" is going to happen.....

Thanks for a wise and clear-headed post.

[Cynth]

You'd better not delete this thread. I may want to show what you said to some people.

[Wormdiet]

The thing that strikes me, aside from the scope of the tragedy, is the common sentiment to rebuild. While understandable, it seems like a case of not learning from a very expensive lesson. rebuilding a major city in the same vulnerable location would be foolish.

[Wormdiet]

The thing that strikes me, aside from the scope of the tragedy, is the common sentiment to rebuild. While understandable, it seems like a case of not learning from a very expensive lesson. rebuilding a major city in the same vulnerable location would be foolish.

[Wormdiet]

Where's the National Guard?

Redwolf

Weeks will yell at me for this, but part of th answer is in Iraq.

[TomB]

The thing that strikes me, aside from the scope of the tragedy, is the common sentiment to rebuild. While understandable, it seems like a case of not learning from a very expensive lesson. rebuilding a major city in the same vulnerable location would be foolish.

Well, folks continue to build in the parts of California after their homes are destroyed from mudslides, wildfires, etc. There are many more examples of it.

[TomB]

Where's the National Guard?

Redwolf

Weeks will yell at me for this, but part of th answer is in Iraq.

Weeks- Don't yell'

Wormdude- you are right, too some extent. A great number of the Guard is in Iraq. Theri missions is twofold. One they are there to train for combat and to support world-wide operations. The second mission is to assist in times of national emergency. Unfortunately, they are engaged in their first mission.

I'm not making any value judgments pertaining to the wisdom of so much of the Guard over in Iraq- and for those of you that know me, I think you'll know what side I'd come down on. I'm just commenting on the "where's the Guard" question.

All the Best, Tom

[BillChin]

My music helps me process difficult events. I hear an interview with a Coast Guard helicopter pilot flying night rescue over New Orleans and feel a wave of emotion for the people left behind. The pilot reports rescuing 36 people during his shift, but sees hundreds of flashlights, all interpreted as a call for rescue. This is the song:

A sea of flashlights

As my helicopter chatters
a sea of flashlights below
Each one seems so desperate
each one hoping I know

So many people need rescue
so little time to spare
so many people desperate
so many dead I fear

With each passing moment
a flashlight flickers then fades
another gives up hope
as I have to fly away

The people I picked up
are grateful to be saved
they too, see the flashlights
flicker then fade away.

August 31, 2005

[The Weekenders]

Where's the National Guard?

Redwolf

Weeks will yell at me for this, but part of th answer is in Iraq.

Weeks- Don't yell'

Wormdude- you are right, too some extent. A great number of the Guard is in Iraq. Theri missions is twofold. One they are there to train for combat and to support world-wide operations. The second mission is to assist in times of national emergency. Unfortunately, they are engaged in their first mission.

I'm not making any value judgments pertaining to the wisdom of so much of the Guard over in Iraq- and for those of you that know me, I think you'll know what side I'd come down on. I'm just commenting on the "where's the Guard" question.

All the Best, Tom

I ain't yelling. They are in fact, deployed in Iraq, and for longer terms than they intended.

I would disagree about rebuilding. It's a major, important and historical city made up of more than bricks, mortar and wood. Of course they will rebuild, but, like Amsterdam, we are going to need a major NATIONAL approach to securing it from harm. It's hard to say though, just how much because, like our earthquakes, there is only so much anyone can do in the face of the power of nature.

You would think that the whole place is flattened from the news, but its not. It's very wet and they have to maybe stop burying people there, if they hadn't already...This will do the trick to convince them, I think. With the exception of the Presidio and Mission Dolores, they took all the bodies out of SFO but not because of low water, but because they wanted to build houses. It can be done and should be done in a below or at sea level situation....

[Cynth]

Gee, Bill, I must say that I really got a very vivid picture in my mind when I read those words. That last verse adds a whole different point of view I wouldn't have thought about.

[susnfx]

Just this minute listened to CNN and they are reporting (interview live with doctor at Charity Hospital in NO) that there are seriously ill people and infants who are in desperate need of help/evacuation at that hospital. There is no military or police presence whatsoever, and when they tried to evacuate some people from the hospital, they were fired on by snipers. What is wrong with people?

Susan

[The Weekenders]

I heard a guy on the radio yesterday whose daughter is a deputy there in NO. At one of the bigger looting areas, the looters had set up snipers to shoot cops. This guy was completely freaked out for his daughter's safety and she was speaking in final terms to him over the phone.

BUT, if the authorities get tough and start shooting back and establish martial law, you and I will never hear the end of it for the rest of our lives from the usual suspects.

[susnfx]

Okay, don't want to leave it at that -- another doctor is saying that National Guard troops (about 20) landed on the roof of the hospital but no one knows where they've gone or what they're doing.

Susan