Bubbly fingerwork

[Jonathan]

[Bubbly refers to noises in between notes where a player might lift up a hole or tap a hole to create a bubbly noise. .

That's exactly what I was talking about. Maybe "short trill" was a bad description At any rate, we're talking about the same thing. And if I'm understanding Peter Laban right, it's not really used in piping.

[Alan]

I don't much care for the bubbly flute sound myself. Listening to Joey Doyle there I could picture him playing while being driven along a washboard road in a car with bad suspension. He does show ability though and if his youthful bloomin' continues to blossom as he ages he might, in time, have another 'face'. Hopefully not from his current one meeting the dashboard at a sudden stop!

[AaronMalcomb]

I bet that the people who do it well (Molloy, McElvogue, etc) had the feel for the music and were able to bring it to life a good while before they started throwing in all the flashy stuff.

There's something to this. If you go into the Céilí House archives (24-07-2004) they replayed part of a programme from 1969. It featured two reels from Molloy about a year after his All-Ireland victory... (this would have been while he was still on the Rudall for all of the anoraks). They're very stripped down compared to his solo albums though they still have that Molloy rip to it just not cluttered with rolls, etc.

I'm with you, Jack, about the saturation of technique in a lot of contemporary flute playing though I'm maybe not as ardent as you. Molloy and Crawford dangle over the edge sometimes but I still appreciate their playing.

In North Indian classical music the bansuri ranks just under the voice in expressive faculty. In ITM I would say the fiddle ranks above the flute because of it's wider chromatics but the flute has a lot of dynamics that I think get overlooked in favor of technique.

Cheers,
Aaron

[OnTheMoor]

I'm guilty of getting turned on to the flute by the "bubbly" playing, and I'd wager that I am not the only one. It was the same with the whistle, I first heard it in some of the Celtic rock/pop groups around these parts, I think you know the type of whistling I am talking about. Then I started playing, listening to the standards and when I went back to listen to the whistle parts in my old cds, they just weren't the same.

One of my first flute cds was Contentment is Wealth and I loved it, listened to it constantly. Then I picked up some others, really started practicing and when I went back to listen to Molloy... it all sounded the same. Track after track after track sounded the exact same, it all got incredibly boring. No doubt his speed and finger work is impressive, and when I listen to one of the tracks on its own, it certainly sounds cool, but it gets tiring.

[Byron]

Well, I gave the Bloom of Youth clip a listen (Joey begins about 29:30 for those who want to fast forward. Seemed like a good kid.) I was able to identify the "bubbly" stuff. Didn't put me off too much. I suppose any technique can be overused in the course of a tune, album, or career.

I like this from Peter:

....have made my peace with the instrument.

Byron

[Cynth]

This has been a good exercise for me, a non-flute player and beginning serious listener. I listened to the flute part of the radio program with Joey Doyle and then listened again to the only other flute player I have listened to, Vincent Broderick, on the Seoltai Siedte CD set, a collection of singing and instrumental solos by many different musicians recorded between 1957 and 1961. There are just two tracks for him.

Am I right in thinking that I cannot compare the actual sound of the two flutes I heard? One is on a professional recording, one is coming from a radio studio through my computer speakers, etc. The flute on the radio sounded harsh to my ears, really sometimes unpleasant. The one on the CD sounds very "nice" all the time.

I can only pick up so much at my level. But it seemed to me that Broderick's playing of the reel set and jig set on the CD was very sparingly ornamented and the notes didn't seem to be specially "articulated". The only emphasis I was really aware of was the use of abrupt halts (on this whistle I guess this would be done with tonguing) at the ends of certain phrases. The odd thing for me is that I find the rhythm to be hard to follow, I get lost in the pieces much more easily than in other pieces played on other instruments on the CD. I then read a bit about Broderick at a website that described his style as "east Galway" and it mentioned sparing ornamentation and a lack of rhythmic "punch" as being characteristic of this style. So that might explain my problem, and I'll look forward to listening more carefully since there is more going on there than I am hearing.

I could hear, in the playing of Joey Doyle, what I think would be the "bubbly" effect. It seems at times as if every note is being articulated in some special way---obviously I don't have a clue as to what he is doing. But if it was on the whistle I might, as a beginner remember, say it sounded like he was cutting or tapping almost every note. I could get the rhythm and not get lost in the tunes.

Obviously, based on my small listening sample and inexperience, my opinion is not really the point of my response and, I think I have dragged things a bit off the topic for which I apologize. I am mainly interested in what people would say about the playing of Vincent Broderick, I have no idea how widely he might be listened to, and if I heard what other people hear when they listen to him.

I, on just this first exposure, found the "bubbly" effect, the messing about with almost every note, to be extremely tiring mentally. I might come to enjoy it if I listened to it more and also if I had it on a good recording.

[chas]

I'm guilty of getting turned on to the flute by the "bubbly" playing, and I'd wager that I am not the only one.

Me, too. After awhile, though, listening to the blazing, highly ornamented style, it occurred to me that I was marveling at the flute playing, not the music. I'm more fond of the more down-to-earth players like Jack Coen and Frankie Kennedy these days. I listen to Frankie and think, what makes his playing so great? I LOVE the music he makes; that's what makes his playing so great.

Jack, thanks for the link; I think I understand what you mean.

[MurphyStout]

Yes Cynth, I know what you're talking about. Some young kids prefer an attacking style (different from a sligo or northern attacking style BTW) and that's why you might find it more articulated than Broderick (as well as harsher and less appealing due to the amount of the air they use and the tone they like to go after.) East Galway is considered a very smooth style and some people would call it extremely legato. I've never heard the clips you're discussing but some more examples of this style could be found listening to someone like Paddy Carty.

[OnTheMoor]

it occurred to me that I was marveling at the flute playing, not the music

As late as a year ago I never would have thought I could enjoy the pipes, or a concertina, but now that I have some sort of feel for the music, I can really get an appreciation for every instrument used in ITM. It is an interesting process.

[MurphyStout]

The hole thing seems to be a cross between tight piping and flute playing.

I wouldn't think so. I actually had one of my piping students here, he does that sort of stuff and I try knocking it out of him because it's not suitable for the pipes. It doesn't make clean piping.

Hmm, I don't know anything about piping. Could you elaborate on your take of it? The reason I say this is because I've heard a few young guys like Joey Doyle who also play the pipes and it seems to be a feature of their playing (flute playing).

[Wormdiet]

I'm guilty of getting turned on to the flute by the "bubbly" playing, and I'd wager that I am not the only one.

Me, too. After awhile, though, listening to the blazing, highly ornamented style, it occurred to me that I was marveling at the flute playing, not the music. I'm more fond of the more down-to-earth players like Jack Coen and Frankie Kennedy these days. I listen to Frankie and think, what makes his playing so great? I LOVE the music he makes; that's what makes his playing so great.

I guess I am "guilty" ( :roll: )of enjoying MM and Kevin Crawford. What attracts me most to their playing isn't necessarily the blazing fast stuff (which is fun too) but also the more subdued tunes. Molloy plays "Sliabh Russell" wonderfully on Heathery Breeze, as well as that slow air with the Gaelic title that I can never recall. Crawford has some absolute gems on "In Good Company," including the jig duet with Martin Hayes featuring the Bb flute and the viola. While these guys may have made their names with speed merchantry, both are much more than that, and pigeonholing them is shortsided. IMO, of course.

And what's wrong with a crankin' fast Em reel now and then anyways?

[mukade]

I have to own up to being extremely bubbly.

It is not something I have copied, from Matt Molloy or anyone else, but there are some ornaments I use to give a little more variation to a tune. I am very bad at changing notes in a tune and I use ornamentation instead.

I do understand what Murphy is saying. I tend to play a tune very simply at first, then add more ornaments towards the end. A guy I learnt from played that way and it stuck. However, using double rolls, as Conal O'Grada called them, all the time is hard on the ear.

I also think my playing the pipes influences the way I play the flute, but the bubbly style is not copied from the uilleann pipes. The crans and bubbles on higher notes feel closer to Highland pipes, although some players, like Sean Og Potts, are very bubbly too.

Mukade

[Cynth]

more examples of this style could be found listening to someone like Paddy Carty.

Okay, thanks. I am familiar with his name and on that website (http://www.theflow.org.uk/index.html) they talked about him as one of the main players of the "east Galway" style, so I'll find some of his playing to listen to.

[Cathy Wilde]

The other night we were talking about Texas competition-style fiddling, and I see a correlation. Those guys have a repertoire of about 30 tunes, and the goal is to see who can play the heck out of each tune the best.

(Cowboy Paganinis, my friend called them.)

But anyway. Build a box like that to work in, and many people are bound to come up with some pretty creative solutions for decorating it! And to most audiences, all the colors and textures are dazzling at first. But eventually for some of us, all those shiny objects can take up too much mental real estate -- and me, I begin to hunger for a simpler, more restful place.

By the same token, after 10 years of playing at Irish flute (note "at"), I've only just begun to be able to stand listening to most solo flute playing. And as brilliant as he is, I STILL can't make it through more than 4 or 5 Molloy tracks at a time before I have to turn to players like the Mountain Road guys or Peter Horan or Marcas O Murchu or Patsy Hanly or Liam Kelly (I'm still enjoying Colm O Donnell, too) as an astringent. There comes a point where I feel assaulted by tortuous settings and technical brilliance -- I suppose this is my real issue -- by NOTHING BUT FLUTE SOUND. Argh! Please Lord, give me accompaniment!

(Then again, I've always figured I was just kind of simple that way.)

However, there's a place for everything, especially in Solo Land, where the goal is -- at least to a degree -- to dazzle. And where your audience probably contains more than a few technique nerds. And shoot, you need variety when it's just you playing for 10 or 20 minutes or an hour.

So even though I'm not a huge fan of the constant flow of bubbly (musical champagne! ), I think it serves a purpose. But once again, in the right time and place.

I agree with Jeanie the others who've said the question is what serves the tune best. And I'd like to add another question: what serves the venue (i.e., the place/setting you're playing) the best?

If you're playing with others, you need to make the most of all the voices. If you're playing alone, I can see how you want to come up with different ways for making the most of your own.

Here we are again, horses for courses -- tho' I prefer the straight-ahead course myself. If it's a great tune, I like to get out of its way.

But you know what? The truly great players -- every last one of them -- know how to do that, too. (altho' usually I think it's when they're a bit older)

[BMFW]

I didn't find the clip of Joey Doyle particularly over the top. When you listen to his playing, there seems to be very little breath articulation and so the majority of his articulation is coming from the ornamentation. This is what I would understand as being a bit more associated with a piping style (although being a GHB piper and not an uilleann piper I am certainly not overly qualified to make this distinction!)

Alot of the "bubbles" seemed to come from the "finger bounce" technique that was mentioned previously, particularly on the F and A notes. I occasionally use them but, like most ornamentation, unless your timing is spot-on you end up disrupting the flow of the tune.

For my money, young Doyle sounded more from the Egan school of bubbliness (I'm going to get a trademark on that name so that if Seamus ever wishes to open The Egan School of Bubbliness he will have to pay me a royalty ) than from the Crawford school.

I agree with some of the previous comments regarding either unaccompanied or solo flute recordings. While it was Matt Molloy who turned me on to flute playing, I would struggle to listen to any of his albums from start to finish! However, some of my favourite solo recordings are actually duets. Paul McGrattan & Matt Molloy, Paul McGrattan & Hammy Hamilton and John Skelton & Keiran O'Hare. There is just something about the subtle differences when two flute players play the same tune together, that adds a great dimension to the music.

Graham