Will's will

[anniemcu]

I'm posting to make sure you know I've PMed you Will... Just in case you somehow missed that...

[GaryKelly]

Will, I'm sitting in Swindon, in a cube-farm, looking at words on a screen and a picture of a cute dog. I know diddly about you, except what you've posted. So here's an objective outsider view for you to consider.

A few years ago, my father was diagnosed with lymphatic cancer. Apparently he'd had it for a while before the quacks 'discovered' it. He and my mother live in Spain, so the first I heard of it was on the phone, on a frosty January evening. "By the way," my mum said, "Just before Christmas, Dad had a kidney removed and was diagnosed with cancer. We didn't want to tell you all in case it ruined your Christmas." Well, thanks very frikkin much... anger didn't come close to describing the betrayal we the kids felt. We should've been told, and bugger Christmas, was our unanimous reaction.

Anyway, for a long while the old man was perhaps understandably maudlin, if not depressed. Everything was 'death' with him. "Guess I'll have shot through before Arsenal win the FA Cup." "Guess I'll be dead before you get married." "I'll have croaked before I get to see you all again." Blah blah. Well, he didn't croak before seeing us all again, and he hasn't yet. As he was packing several bottles of jolly decent Scotch and Irish I'd bought him to take back to Spain after a recent trip over here, he said "Thanks son, I'll probably shoot through before I get to drink it though." I told him he'd shoot through a lot fu*cking sooner than that if he didn't stop pizzing us all off with that tired old bollocks.

My father wants to be cremated, and his ashes scattered in Portsmouth Harbour from the back of an RN frigate (he served in the RN for 26 years, frigates mostly). As the executor of his will, when he carks it I'm supposed to fly to Spain, organise his cremation (presumably after first learning to speak Spanish), then cart his urn back to the UK, head off down to Pompey, persuade The Admiralty to let me aboard one of their warships and have it pootle around the harbour while I do the deed. In spite of the fact that the RN no longer permits such ceremonies and hasn't done for years. I told my father he'd be lucky if I got away with dumping him off the back of the Gosport Ferry, since the last gadger who did that got arrested and fined, apparently.

I'm an adult, 45, I've seen death. My own gets a day closer every sunrise. But the thought of my father's death is a hard one to bear. Fathers are heroes. Your boy's 12 years old. To him, you're still Superman. You'll still be Superman when he's 45. Unless you completely fu*ck it up now.

So start thinking of him, and your good lady. Stop focusing on the 'deadline' and concentrate instead on the journey to it. Unless of course you truly believe that having your mortal remains dumped in a country your ancestors left 158 feckin years ago and you've only seen once is more important than your wife and son. Dying's easy, everyone does it. It's the living that's hard.

[Uilliam]

Just a thought and I don't know if it is possible,but what about a little baloon possibly with the ashes inside it ,fixed to a string and the ashes released at a certain height?How that would be done is beyond my ken,but maybe a local farmer with a shotgun? I am not trying to be funny really I am not...but that would solve the expense of hiring planes etc and not put your family through the flying thing..+ it would be very different. !!
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam
ps ...as an afterthought it could be done with a firework rocket ...with a hole in the ashes container so as it sped skywards the ashes would be released,that could be very effective and simple to do!!!

[avanutria]

I'm going to approach this from your son's angle, because I was slightly younger than him when a parent died from prolonged illness. it's a very emotional topic for me.

My son, who is 12, has taken a stoical attitude toward this whole new reality thing that Dad's going through, looks like he wants to cry, won't really look at me anymore and answers all questions about how he's handling the Dad being sick thing with a big, "WHATEVER."

Your son is freaking out. He's terrified that his hero is going to die, and worse, that you're giving up. He DOES want to cry, but doesn't want to show his fear because it's weak and 'uncool'. If he looks at you he might lose control of his emotions.

He may be afraid of having to be the 'man of the house' before he's a teenager. He may feel that since you're talking about your plans, you actively want to die and "leave him". Then on another level he knows that's not true, and feels guilty for thinking it.

The "Whatever" response, unless he normally responded to questions this way before this subject came up, is an attempt to get the subject changed before he breaks down. It's not that he doesn't care about it, but rather that he can't deal with the pain of caring.

I went to child counseling, and to be honest, I hated it. But it might be something to consider for your son - it works for some people. Maybe visiting a family counselor with him would help your communication.

Another thing to do is to prepare for the possible event by making memory books for him. If you DO pass away before he grows up (whether from illness or an unexpected accident), you will miss many of his special events. First dates, high school graduation, college, marriage, kids. Prepare something now that he can read later on. I asked my grandmothers to fill out family books called "Grandmother Remembers" and I am pretty sure there are "Father" ones as well. Make video tapes, telling about your experiences in college/first jobs/engagement/wedding/marriage/becoming a father. These are very important things to your son, though he doesn't know it now.

In the future, if you are not there to share those events with him, the records you make now will be priceless to him, and prove to him that you love(d) him and care(d) about him.

I would give anything to have the same mementos now...

[Jack]

What Beth has said about the memory books is part of what was explained in the books I was going to try to find again at the library, but it doesn't look like I'm going to get to go, so I will repeat some of what I remember.

On the video tapes of yourself speaking into the camera, make one for each birthday until your son is 18 (or longer if you wish). Tell him what you did at that age, share memories from your growing up, in the tapes tell him what you hope for him and that you love him. Make the tapes on archival quality tapes (I think you buy these at the library but I'm not sure) so that they will last--don't use regular tapes if you can help it.

Go through your photo albums with your family and assign an index card to each picture that means a lot, explain the scene by writing it down, explain what you were feeling at that time, explain who the people in the picture are, etc. When I thought I was dying, I did this to a lot of my pictures for my younger brother (I'm many years older than him so he's like my child). Just go through pictures and write down memories for each one. I placed the index cards behind the pictures after I had written down. This may take a few days if you have a lot of special pictures.

Get one of those "do-it-yourself autobiography" books and fill it out, for you son to read later on. The one I bought was called Book of Myself: A Do-It-Yourself Autobiography in 201 Questions--it is meant for people in old age, but if your life is ending soon, it is very appropriate. It asks thought provoking questions about your early years, your grade school memories, your high school, your past times as a young person, all that stuff so that you can pass the book on to your loved ones. I really benefited emotionally and spiritually from this book.

I'm still praying for peace for you and your family. *hugs*

[avanutria]

Tell him what you did at that age, share memories from your growing up, in the tapes tell him what you hope for him and that you love him.

To expand on this - be careful when expressing your hopes for him - if his life develops in a different direction than what you expected in your tapes, it may cause guilt. (It did for me.) Don't be too specific: Instead of wishing for him to be "graduating from a wonderful university and marrying the girl of your dreams" consider the true important things that underly those events - finding something in life to enjoy and excel in, following his dreams, and cultivating trusting relationships with the people he loves.

It's harder to do in video than in person because you can't adapt your responses based on his personality and goals. Remember to reassure him (now) that you don't WANT to leave him, but that you are talking about the possibility and making plans now so that it is easier for the family when it happens - whether in five years or in fifty.

[Martin Milner]

Difficult subject, Will.

I had a great uncle whose ashes were scattered under a favourite tree on his own private land (he was a farmer). Within ten years, the farm had been sold and his descendants had moved away.

My own grandmother was cremated about twelve years ago, and her ashes put in the memorial garden of the crematorium. I don't know if anyone has visited the place since, but I do think about her, and the happy times we shared, often.

I think people here are right to suggest doing what you can to help your loved ones, both now and after you are gone, rather than focussing on what happens to your mortal remains - as Gary says, it's really not going to affect you once you're gone, may that time be long delayed.

[mvhplank]

I may have missed some discussion on this, but outlining your "final disposition" in your will may not be the most appropriate place. I recently had my will drawn up and my attorney, a long-time friend, made very clear that often, no one even looks at the will until after the funeral. There may be a more appropriate "instrument" in which to spell out your wishes. But he also bluntly said that it's not enforceable.

So, why are you trying to retain control over events that will happen after you're gone? Funerals are not for the benefit of the guest of honor but to give comfort to the bereaved. Please don't make it harder for them by giving them instructions they'll find unbearable and perhaps impossible to follow. Why not ask them what they might think is comforting and appropriate?

Bailey White wrote a charming novel, Quite a Year for Plums. There is very small subplot in which one character can't bear to take her mother's ashes out of the kitchen cupboard. A friend, after years of watching the woman reach around Mom to reach the flour, created a wonderful, embroidered cover for the box of ashes. The generosity and the beauty of the gift made it a pleasure to keep Mom in the cupboard until events and emotions make it appropriate to take her out.

M

PS--Anyone could start now and commission or build their own custom container.

[avanutria]

Another thought occurred to me and is related to the previous two posters - if your ashes are scattered in a foreign country, it could be very difficult, if not impossible, for your family members to feel there is someplace they can go to 'visit' you. My grandmother visited the cemetary quite regularly until she moved out of the area - it was a vital part of her recovery.

[emmline]

Well, you might know Will's people. I don't. With that said, I can speak from experience that my people wouldn't know what I cared about or what I wanted. I'm sure a lot of people's "people" do know, but it's really not always the case.

yep. you've got a point.
I appreciate what people are contributing about emphasizing now, making memories, and leaving positive ones.

[Tyler]

Will,
Thanks for your post in this regard, my very best to you!
(Also, I felt it was appropriate to say a big "thank-you" to Gary, Cran, ava, and Martin for some very thoughtful posts...you've made me start to think about how I would like to be remembered by my young daughter, should something ever happen to me. I'm going out and buying a big journal during my lunch hour!)

Will, I truly hope that you can find a solution to your problem that will be beneficial to yourself and your family. Knowing a family member is on the way out is one of the hardest things that I have ever had to endure, so I will repeat one piece of advice that has been given here in many forms; carpe diem, friend! You're still here with us, you're still with your family, and we all need you in one form or other. We, and your family, still love and need you. Make the very most of every day you have with us and your family.
We all care very much for the members of this forum, and it's obvious from previous posts that we care about you and your welfare.
All our best to you at this time!

[missy]

Will - I'm going to make a somewhat different suggestion - not in the hopes of changing your mind, but just to inform you in case you don't already know.

My dad always said he wanted to be cremated. He absolutely hated funerals - especially the laying out, and the expense of burials. His usual comment was "If you have the need to plant something when I die, plant a tree".

About 8 years before my dad died (he died in 1986), we found out about the body donation program at the University of Cincinnati. The body is transported to UC, and everything donate - able is used. Then other parts or organs are used in research. The body CANNOT be used as a cadaver. After about a year and a half, the remains are cremated, and the family can either collect the ashes, or there is a mass enternment area donated by our local cemetary. The only charge for this is whatever cost may be incurred transporting the body to UC.

I've had 10 relatives, besides my father, go this route. Dad died of colon cancer, which had masticized into liver, lung and spinal cancer. He was really worried that UC wouldn't take him - since none of his organs could be used for donation with the cancer so wide spread. However, UC assured him that they would still utilize his body in some way. At the year and a half mark after his death, the hospital organizes a memorial service where the doctors and researchers talk a bit about how the bodies in that particular group were used. In dad's case, a lot of them helped in laser treatment for eyes - so since I've now had Lazik, my dad may have been one of those that provided me with that chance!

Again - I don't know how you feel about organ donation and research - but if this is something that you may be interested in, I know most teaching universities world-wide have similar programs.

But - most importantly, it made my Dad feel "better" about his death - that he could possibly help others in the process. He went from being fine (15 months after the surgery to remove the cancerous colon material) to being rediagnosed and dying in a mere 6 weeks. I'm an only child, and I was 4 months pregnant with my first child when he died. All I cared about at the time was that HE was comforted - and I would have done anything to make that a possibility.

You and your family have my thoughts and prayers.

[Will O'B]

OY!!! Where do I start? There seem to be a lot of misimpressions about what I wrote. Not your faults. In re-reading my posts in the light of a new day I can see where many of them come from. The stuff I wrote was all over the place -- I see that more clearly today. I appologize for that, but you people need to undersatnd that thinking clearly and communicating have taken a big hit and try as hard as I may it's not something that I do as well as I used to when I'm having a not so good day. So please bear with me. I would like to address each of your comments separately, but there is just too much here for me to do that. I'll try to hit upon some of the general things that stand out.

I recently learned that a girl who I grew up with lost her eyesight at the age of 20 (thirty some years ago). Her sister told me that the way she copes with this loss is that every so often she goes into a private room and gives herself permission to sit on the floor, cry, scream and pound on the wall for 5 minutes. When those 5 minutes are over, she gets up, brushes herself off and goes back to her life. I suppose that my ranting / meltdown yesterday was my 5 minutes of crying, screaming and pounding on the floor. I should have done it in private. And I am deeply sorry and embarased for exposing all of you to that. More later about that.

In reference to my posts, someone said, "There's a lot going on here." That is very true. I was addressing several different topics without clearly explaining what I was getting at each time. Almost everyone read it as all relating to the spreading of my ashes. Again I understand how you would read it this way. Especially since that's the title I chose for the thread.

Sorry, but I m getting too tired and dizzy to keep going right now. An all too common problem nowdays. I know what I want to say but I can't get it wout right now. Sorry. But I need to say it before I forget how. My death is on my mind alot as i kow it is for my wife and son. I DO NOT talk about it with them. Except for the ashes thing. And that was for maybe a total of 10 minutes. My son's "Whatever" I know is a coping mechanism. I didn't mean to imply that it had anything to do with the ashes or anything else. If I sounded angry it's because I am -- but not really about the ashes as much as about the not being around to watch him become the success that I know he will one day be. And no, I don't expect anyone to make a long trip out of their own pocket or at the drop of a hat. I will explain this and more lateer after I get back up.

Will O

PS: A special thank you to everyone for responding. Especially to those who sent such kind thoughts in their e-mails. I will answere them later, too.

[Cynth]

Gee, Will, I didn't think you were ranting, just that you were frustrated. It is hard for everyone to communicate here because we can't see the looks on each others faces or hear tones of voice.

The last thing you need is another thought, but once I get started I can't stop. I think, based on the experience of several friends, that things get awfully rough in families when someone is very ill or dying. Everyone is dealing with the biggest experience in life and everyone is having trouble with it.

I think that in hospices there are often people who are there to help families get so that they can talk about things and say the things they need and want to say. They might talk to people individually or to the family all together. Perhaps you have spoken with this person and found it was not helpful. Just a thought.

[missy]

Will - may I make another suggestion?

When my dad was dying, he had a friend that would come over everyday, and they would argue and yell, about everything and nothing. After several days of this, Ed asked us (out of dad's hearing) if we thought he should stop coming by, since dad would get so mad.
We told Ed that, no, he SHOULD continue to visit. What was happening was that dad felt comfortable taking his anger out about dying on Ed, instead of us. He knew Ed wouldn't take it personnally, where we had our own grief to deal with.

So, you need to find SOMEONE who you can get mad at (just as your friend has done with her blindness and time out room). It doesn't have to be talking about death - it could be about the gas prices or whatever - or it can be about death if that is what you feel comfortable discussing.
But - this isn't FAIR. It sucks. And you need (for your own health) to get those feelings out somehow. It is totally understandable that you don't want to do it with your family.

If nothing else - I'm a pretty good listener, and can duke it out, too. If you want to use my "ear" - you are more than welcome to.

But GET MAD, damnit!!!! And do NOT keep it in.