The transition from whistle to flute. How long should it be?

[Lambchop]

I do find that the transition is very hard, and whole process is very new to me.

I do wish I had taken up the wooden flute at the same time as learning the whistle so I could learn new tunes and practise also with my breathing and fingering with the whistle. I did tell my teacher that I wanted to learn the flute on day one and not focus on the whistle.

Yes, the transition is very hard and the process is new. That's ok, really. Your teacher was very wise, I think, in asking you to wait a bit. I'm not just saying that to soothe you, but because I believe it.

I did, in fact, start the two almost at the same time. I think that it would have been much, much better to have spent 6 months or so on whistle before tackling flute.

However, now I am wondering about the pain threshold I have to sustain until my embouchure is good as well as my fingering.

Have you ever done anything athletic? Dancing? Running? Swimming? If so, you know that nothing comes right away. You have to work at it and work at it bit by bit.

Really, the "good part" of learning anything is not the end result. That's good, yes, but it's not the ONLY reason we learn something. We also learn for the joy of learning.

It's FUN to learn to play flute. Even though you might not be as good as you want to be, and even though (now) you're looking at how awful you are, it's still FUN to learn. You just have to accept that progress is going to be in teeny bits and be joyous that you CAN make progress even in teeny bits.

Don't be upset about this. It's just the way it is. Nothing good comes easily, after all.

You mentioned that your fingers had been sore. Something seems to get sore on most of us. Try ice after you play. Fill up a big bowl with ice and water--in Ireland, the water might be cold enough that you can just use it as is, but here we can practically make tea straight out of the faucet, so we have to use a lot of ice--and plop your hand in. Leave it there for 15 minutes. It'll feel horrible at first . . . really, really horrible . . . pins and needles and COLD! . . . but after 10 or 15 minutes, it will begin to feel warm and nice. You have to leave your hand in the ice water the whole time . . . it won't work if you dunk it in and out . . . but you can take it out when it starts feeling warm. This should help a lot. It works much better than just putting ice on it.

[Cynth]

These exersizes you might want to incorporate into your practicing during breaks. I'm just refering to the stretching ones---I haven't tried the weight lifting ones. They are supposed to help with tension which might lead to pain and bigger problems. I found them helpful with the whistle. They aren't for treating an already existing problem, just to try to prevent one. http://www.mindspring.com/~shin-on/handcare.html

Lamby, I know I spelled exersizes wrong. There is a "c" in there somewhere but I just can't seem to work it out. exercizes, excersizes, ..........

[Cathy Wilde]

If they're to stave off the pain demons, maybe they're exorcizes.

(otherwise, it's just "exercise", no z neczessary)

[Cynth]

OH, Cathy, I was sure there was a "z"! I am going to get that word down. I have learned to spell "embarrass" correctly so I believe I can tackle this word too---exercise. It is spelled like precise. Now how do I remember that? This language, honestly!

[Cathy Wilde]

I know, English is the worst, isn't it? And the differences between American and King's English ... yikes.

In fact, I have a confession ... now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure the correct spelling of the demon-removal-ritual is actually "exorcise" as opposed to the z version, so there ya go.

Oddly enough, though, I recall my dictionary listing both "excise" and "excize" as OK for "removing something" or for use in "excise tax." What's that about?

Darn spelling. Another thing I used to be good at. :roll:

[Cynth]

I know. I recall doing fine on spelling tests. But then, I guess I don't have my mom to drill me any more the night before I need to spell a word right! I remember "neighbor" as being the worst word of my childhood. It was like four letters in a row that could have been anything as far as I could tell. Maybe if we get it wrong we could just say it is the British spelling and hope no one looks it up.

Or we could start a movement to make "z" okay if the word sounds like it has a "z" in it. I don't think Lamby would go for that one though.

[Lambchop]

I know. I recall doing fine on spelling tests. But then, I guess I don't have my mom to drill me any more the night before I need to spell a word right! I remember "neighbor" as being the worst word of my childhood. It was like four letters in a row that could have been anything as far as I could tell. Maybe if we get it wrong we could just say it is the British spelling and hope no one looks it up.

Or we could start a movement to make "z" okay if the word sounds like it has a "z" in it. I don't think Lamby would go for that one though.

No, Lamby wouldn't. The original pronunciation of most of those "z" words is "ise," not "z," making it easy to remember how to spell the words. Just pretend you speak with a cute British accent and you'll have it.

Lambchop does not scorn those who cannot spell. She just can't comprehend how it is possible to have missed this gift. Spelling is so incredibly obvious, after all.

Not like the times tables, and telephone numbers, and the words to the Declaration of Independence.

Certainly not like music.

[Cynth]

Ohhhhh, I knew I'd get caught! The times tables---at least there is some reason behind them. I mean you could actually count on your fingers, or make piles of little stones to figure them out. Spelling is just plain irrational. But a great gift nonetheless.

[Jumbuk]

I sound absolutely awful...I'm starting to loose all confidence in myself now

F.D. :roll:

Hey, I know how you feel! I have posted somewhere else about my problems with low notes. As a musician who can play plenty of tunes on banjo, dulcimer and guitar, it is humbling for me to go to a session and only be able to stumble through the South Wind on the flute - but you will definitely get there.

I find it helpful to practice in front of a mirror, up real close, and just move my lips and flute around until I get a good sound. Also, work on the classical flute players' exercise of playing long sustained notes on each degree of the scale, trying to make it sound as nice as possible. I use this as a warm-up, then practice a few tunes, then go back and do it again.

Keep at it!

[DCrom]

I sound absolutely awful...I'm starting to loose all confidence in myself now

F.D. :roll:

Hey, I know how you feel! I have posted somewhere else about my problems with low notes. As a musician who can play plenty of tunes on banjo, dulcimer and guitar, it is humbling for me to go to a session and only be able to stumble through the South Wind on the flute - but you will definitely get there.

I find it helpful to practice in front of a mirror, up real close, and just move my lips and flute around until I get a good sound. Also, work on the classical flute players' exercise of playing long sustained notes on each degree of the scale, trying to make it sound as nice as possible. I use this as a warm-up, then practice a few tunes, then go back and do it again.

Keep at it!

It's humbling to start over again. I just (this morning!) got a Casey Burns Folk Flute, after a couple of years of on-and-off practice with a Dixon 2-piece. Granted, only the last few months were even halfway serious, but I've been able to knock out simple tunes for some time.

Two things shocked me right away:

1) How much easier the reach is on the Burns, compared to the cylindrical Dixon. I can play much faster tunes without feeling like I'm going to drop the flute.

2) How much work I need to do on my embouchure. Though nobody would accuse the Dixon of having a lovely tone, I could play up to the 3rd octave E without much trouble. But on the Burns, the 2nd octave G requires attention and the notes above that are still elusive. I know it's me, not the flute - not only do the lower notes sound wonderful, but I've been able get the notes up to 3rd octave D once or twice.

I'm looking forward to spending more time on it tonight - but it looks like most of my playing-in time will be devoted to embouchure development. Oh, well - it's still a lot easier than starting oboe was. Sounds a lot better, too.

[Denny]

1) How much easier the reach is on the Burns, compared to the cylindrical Dixon. I can play much faster tunes without feeling like I'm going to drop the flute.

He does very well at that, doesn't he! The holes are just under the fingers.

2) How much work I need to do on my embouchure. Though nobody would accuse the Dixon of having a lovely tone, I could play up to the 3rd octave E without much trouble. But on the Burns, the 2nd octave G requires attention and the notes above that are still elusive. I know it's me, not the flute - not only do the lower notes sound wonderful, but I've been able get the notes up to 3rd octave D once or twice.

It shouldn't take long to get the higher notes straightened out.
3rd octave D & E are both playable, F# & G aren't too bad, A is not real happy...

Getting a narrower air stream, that hits the right spot, and the ability to keep it right there will come.

[scheky]

I'd given up all thoughts of really ever learning the flute, mostly due to the fact that most wooden instruments seem to give me breathing difficulties (akin to Athsma). I haven't narrowed which woods did this or didn't, and to be honest, it's not worth the risk to find out.

I'd decided that the whistle was enough for wind instruments (and don't get me wrong, I love my whistles). However, I recently realized that I was seriously underappreciating my M&E (original) flute. Some part of me decided that a poly flute couldn't have a good sound.

Silly me. Now I'm practicing every night on it and I can already hear a serious improvement. It sure wasn't the flute, it was just me.

Don't be disheartened...if even I can manage a polka from the thing (still a bit shaky on the second register...hell, shaky on the lower one too) from time to time, it's all good.

[DCrom]

Oh, I know it can be done. But because I was able to work my way up to the third octave on the notoriously picky Dixon Duo without too much trouble, I'd somehow expected to pick up the Burns and do the same thing right away.

Despite an easy-to-hit lower octave, the upper octave on the Burns seems to need a lot more focus than the Dixon does; blowing HARD doesn't help at all, it needs to be fast and aimed right. I know it's possible, because every once in a while I get it right for a bit, but that's still the welcome exception rather than the rule. I'm working on it, and think I'm getting better, but I've got a way to go yet.

Right now, my biggest problem with the Burns is simple: breaking it in. I got it second-hand from another board member, but I don't know how much it's been played so I'm trying to be cautious about how long I play it. And it gets *really* frustrating to put it away just when I'm getting warmed up.

Of course, I can (do) switch over to the Dixon when I put the Burns down, but since my main issue is adjusting to the Burn's embouchure I'm not sure how much that's helping. (I think my work with the Burns is helping with the Dixon, though.)

If I was *really* dubious about the Burns, I could get in touch with one of the local C & F flute folks and have them try it out. I'll probably do that next time we have a get-together (just to hear what it's capable of in skilled hands), but I'll be amazed if it shows anything other than Good Flute/Poor Embouchure on my part.