The transition from whistle to flute. How long should it be?

[bradhurley]

However, a friend told me that it took him two weeks to get a note sounded from the flute.

That's not unusual, though it comes more easily to some than others.

Can you get a note from a beer-bottle? If so, you should be able to get a note from a flute.

It's frustrating for the first year or so, but once you get a good tone it's addicting...and it also makes the tuning problems go away. The flute is much easier to play in tune when you have a focused tone. It can take a few years, but like anything else, if you stick it out you'll be rewarded.

Tendinitus can be avoided...just try not to play too long in the beginning. I'm re-learning guitar after not playing for 10 years and it can be very painful for my left hand, but as long as I go at it slowly (starting out with 10 minutes a day) I seem to have no lasting ill effects.

[Flauta dolce]

It can't be that easy.
I guess it would take practise blowing a note into beer bottle , though.
Like most things.

I have to admit though I alwayswanted to start with the Irish wooden Flute first. My teacher is cool about most things but not in starting the flute. I asked him this last week. And he says I have to know the whistle inside out before moving on. By the way, how is the whistle so different to the flute? I never understood why my teacher always wanted me to play the whistle. Can someone explain his logic?

[bradhurley]

The logic to it is that the fingering is the same, and it's easier to get the basic understanding-what-Irish-music-is-all-about on the whistle than it is by starting out on the flute when you've got the big challenge of tone production to contend with. Once you've got the fingering down on the whistle, you can go to flute and only have to focus on the issues of tone, breath control, and articulation, rather than also having to struggle with figuring out how to move your fingers.

I have to admit though I alwayswanted to start with the Irish wooden Flute first. My teacher is cool about most things but not in starting the flute. I asked him this last week. And he says I have to know the whistle inside out before moving on. By the way, how is the whistle so different to the flute? I never understood why my teacher always wanted me to play the whistle. Can someone explain his logic?

[Cathy Wilde]

The logic to it is that the fingering is the same, and it's easier to get the basic understanding-what-Irish-music-is-all-about on the whistle than it is by starting out on the flute when you've got the big challenge of tone production to contend with. Once you've got the fingering down on the whistle, you can go to flute and only have to focus on the issues of tone, breath control, and articulation, rather than also having to struggle with figuring out how to move your fingers.

Once again, Mr. Hurley says it best! (someday I'll get to one paragraph I swear I will)

Seriously, though -- I was just thinking about this while driving into work this morning and marveling at Breda Smyth's whistle playing. It just seems like there's stuff she does (and some other brilliant players do) that simply won't fly on the flute. I guess that's why, in some ways, I think the whistle is harder -- at least to play really, really well. While phrasing, breathing, basic ornamentation, etc. can be pretty similar, a truly great whistle player just seems to have another whole level of ornamentation in the toolbox -- triplets and rolls & such that basically turn to mud on the flute, no matter how good the player. (I suppose that's why I tend to prefer a more stripped-down flute style, huh?)

Nonetheless, I prefer the flute myself. But the better I get on the flute, the more respect I have for the whistle (and the more painfully aware I am of how lame my whistle playing is!). And like I said, you've got time. May as well use what's in between to be a better whistle player. Then, once you get the blowing down, the flute will be a piece of cake!

(One paragraph someday ... but evidently today is not that day )

[tin tin]

My first flute lesson(s) involved learning to get a sound out of the headjoint before adding the flute body...I think this approach is easier than trying to play a tune the first time you lift the instrument. (You can actually get two basic notes from the headjoint--one with the end open and another by covering the end with you palm. Plus, you can imitate a slide whistle by putting your finger in open end of the headjoint and sliding it out.)

[Lambchop]

I'm still interested in starting the flute.

However, a friend told me that it took him two weeks to get a note sounded from the flute.

As I'm a bit frail : it could take me longer.

I got sound after a few minutes of increasingly frantic trying. I got actual notes some time later. Decent-sounding notes took a little longer. Decent-sounding notes in a phrase took a lot longer, but I was starting from scratch.

Frailty isn't going to be a problem, unless you mean that you're so weak you won't be able to hold the flute up very long. (Take up weight lifting!) My Clarke whistle takes more air than my flutes. It's not the volume of air you put into it, but whether the air stream is focused and directed properly.

I'm thinking that it will take me a life-time even.

That's a good thing, isn't it?

I've heard some people playing in a session and they don't have a decent sound coming out the wooden flute and their phrasing is lousy. That worries me.

It shouldn't worry you. If you already know you want to achieve better than that, then you are halfway to your goal because you have a clear picture of what you need to do.

It's the people who think they sound great after only a month who need to worry.

[fyffer]

It's the people who think they sound great after only a month who need to worry.

But clearly, we don't want to discourage such people from even making an attempt at joining a session, do we? Perhaps those people don't necessarily think they sound great, but they are simply playing as best they can -- so far. I'm one of those lifetime-musician-new-to-Irish-flute types who knows oh-so-well that he doesn't sound too hot, but that doesn't stop me from trying - nor should it.

All above, IMHO, YMMV.

[Jack Bradshaw]

Heck, no !

I'm going to be great next month for the past three years ! Can't beat it !

[ninjaaron]

I'm still interested in starting the flute.

However, a friend told me that it took him two weeks to get a note sounded from the flute.

As I'm a bit frail : it could take me longer.

[I'm also worried about tendinitus...is it all in my head?]

Dude. I could play the first octave of a flute I built myself out of PVC within minutes It's not rocket science. The better flutes are more difficult to play, but beginner flutes are easy as pie.

And do worry about tendonitus. If your worried, you will use correct posture and not get it.

[Cathy Wilde]

Yeah, and if you get tendonitis you can always go back to the whistle.

[norseman]

Yeah, and if you get tendonitis you can always go back to the whistle.

Yes, I was even able to play the high D whistle with a cast on my left arm.

Bob

[Lambchop]

It's the people who think they sound great after only a month who need to worry.

But clearly, we don't want to discourage such people from even making an attempt at joining a session, do we? Perhaps those people don't necessarily think they sound great, but they are simply playing as best they can -- so far. I'm one of those lifetime-musician-new-to-Irish-flute types who knows oh-so-well that he doesn't sound too hot, but that doesn't stop me from trying - nor should it.

All above, IMHO, YMMV.

What on earth did I say that had anything to do with discouraging people from joining a session???

I was trying to be encouraging. But, you know, I appreciate your criticism. I now realize how incredibly stupid I must sound to all of you lifetime experts.

So sorry to have intruded. Won't happen again.

[Cynth]

fyffer, I think Lambchop was really talking about people who do think they sound great in a very short time. I think those people might well cause a problem for other musicians.

And she was pointing out that Flauta dolce was showing enough awareness of her skills so that she was in no danger of becoming deluded in that way.

Lambchop wasn't saying that people had to be great to join a session or that fairly new players shouldn't join a session that welcomes new players or that anyone shouldn't try playing with others.

You seem to have a realistic view of your playing (perhaps you are even too hard on yourself, I don't know) and she was saying that Flauta would have that sort of view as well. It was the realistic judgment of one's own playing that I thought Lambchop was addressing.

[fyffer]

Whoa! I wasn't trying to offend, in any way, Lambchop -- really, and I'm the first to admit, I'm about as non-lifetime-expert as they come. I went to my first real session only about 6 months ago! What I was simply trying to say, and not directed at Lambchop, was to not rush to judgement about those people whom you imagine "think they sound great". Gosh, I may even come off as one of those, though clearly, I know I don't sound great -- I just have a heck of a lot of fun just trying to sound great.

And I do agree about those clueless folk who really do think they sound great -- and don't. Unfortunately, there's no hope for them.

I don't want to come off as a snoot in any way, and I'm sorry if I did.

Please do offer your opinion - it's as valid (if not more so) as my own.

And Cynth, thanks for playing the mediator. You hit it spot on.

Friends?

[Flauta dolce]

Thanks for of all your words of advice, it really helped. I went to my lesson yesterday evening and I spoke to my teacher again about this. He said I was good enough to start the flute. This is good news, good news indeed. After a long discussion with my teacher Sean, I am going to get a good Irish wooden flute. I'll start playing in September. I will also do lessons in the school of music.


By the way, my teacher has tinnitus at the moment.

His advice was to get a Sam Murray flute (Galway flute maker). Any feedback about flutes that I should buy? I could be wrong but I would have thought a Hammy might be easier to play. I'm not interested in practising on a D Polymer Flutes, definitely not. I'm not interested in buying a practise flute either. Any advice is greatly appreciated!


By the way, I play a Clark Sweetone D (as well as a Killian O'Briain D' whistle) also and I don't find it difficult to get a good sound. It has an unusual shape to it (it's conical).

In the meantime, I'll keep practising on the beer bottle.
Any tips to "prepare" myself for the new instrument are greatly appreciated. Once again, thanks!