the deserting embouchure......
-
- Posts: 1163
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:52 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: south east netherlands
the deserting embouchure......
As I am still new to the flute and a long way to go.......just curious...
How come, if things work fine at home when you are practicing and you are happy with what you hear, then when you go out and want your friends to have a listen, your embouchure deserts you (the coward!) and there you are, and nothing to let them have a listen to, making a fool of yourself, you feel.
I am pretty sure that I am not the only one struggling and trying to get rid of this cowardly embouchure syndrome according to an post on another forum earlier today......
But maybe all you fluters further down the road could help us noobs how you did handle this yourself, maybe with some suggestions how to cure this
happy tooting
berti
How come, if things work fine at home when you are practicing and you are happy with what you hear, then when you go out and want your friends to have a listen, your embouchure deserts you (the coward!) and there you are, and nothing to let them have a listen to, making a fool of yourself, you feel.
I am pretty sure that I am not the only one struggling and trying to get rid of this cowardly embouchure syndrome according to an post on another forum earlier today......
But maybe all you fluters further down the road could help us noobs how you did handle this yourself, maybe with some suggestions how to cure this
happy tooting
berti
- BillChin
- Posts: 1700
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:24 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Light on the ocean
- Contact:
I recently posted an anecdote about this. At my monthly music group, it was my turn to solo and I picked up my new Tipple flute and nothing came out. Tried again, again nothing. So I cracked a joke. The group is dominated by guitar players, so I said, "maybe I need a capo." The laughter helped me relax enough to eek out a tune, though my the notes were soft and raspy.
Relaxation and concentration seem at odds, but I find both are necessary. With whistle, closing my eyes seems to help, with the flute, eyes open seems to work better. Someone else posted the tip to sit or stand straight and bring the flute to the mouth. The tendency is to hold the flute and move the head, giving a slumped posture and poor breathing that goes with it.
Relaxation and concentration seem at odds, but I find both are necessary. With whistle, closing my eyes seems to help, with the flute, eyes open seems to work better. Someone else posted the tip to sit or stand straight and bring the flute to the mouth. The tendency is to hold the flute and move the head, giving a slumped posture and poor breathing that goes with it.
- Cathy Wilde
- Posts: 5591
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:17 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Somewhere Off-Topic, probably
Alas, it seems the only real cure is to keep trying until you don't get so nervous. It can be really tough. I can still fall apart -- much more often than I'd like! -- when I start tunes in sessions, even when they're tunes I thought I knew cold. The fingers forget, the brain forgets, whatever .... This from someone who performed classical solos for auditions, juries, recital pieces, in big ensembles, etc. for years, including an entire solo piece with an orchestra.
So in those situations, I've found that the lifeguard system helps: i.e., find a buddy who can rescue you -- if you start playing and begin to flounder, your friend can jump in and play along and thus the tune is salvaged and everyone wins. (then one day you can rescue your buddy, too)
** Oooh, here's an idea --> why not work up a duet or two or three with a friendly fiddle or whistle player or such, and then ease into the solo work from there?
But mostly, I think you just have to keep falling off the horse until you learn how to stay on.
Meanwhile, a few quick tips: don't press the flute against your lip too hard (or too lightly!), make sure it's in about the right spot on your lip before you start, think of the tune before you start, remember to breathe frequently, even more than you do at home, try for the best tone you can but be satisfied with any tone at first, and just keep doing it, even if it means forcing yourself to play alone in front of people (I found that a bit of quiet noodling during those "breaks" in a session (i.e., when a bunch of people head for the bar at once) can also be helpful for easing into public play -- just be very, very sensitive to the fact that someone else may be wanting to start an actual tune!).
Once again, good luck. Mostly, we just have to "play as if no one's listening", to butcher a popular aphorism.
Hang in there. We're with ya, sister!
So in those situations, I've found that the lifeguard system helps: i.e., find a buddy who can rescue you -- if you start playing and begin to flounder, your friend can jump in and play along and thus the tune is salvaged and everyone wins. (then one day you can rescue your buddy, too)
** Oooh, here's an idea --> why not work up a duet or two or three with a friendly fiddle or whistle player or such, and then ease into the solo work from there?
But mostly, I think you just have to keep falling off the horse until you learn how to stay on.
Meanwhile, a few quick tips: don't press the flute against your lip too hard (or too lightly!), make sure it's in about the right spot on your lip before you start, think of the tune before you start, remember to breathe frequently, even more than you do at home, try for the best tone you can but be satisfied with any tone at first, and just keep doing it, even if it means forcing yourself to play alone in front of people (I found that a bit of quiet noodling during those "breaks" in a session (i.e., when a bunch of people head for the bar at once) can also be helpful for easing into public play -- just be very, very sensitive to the fact that someone else may be wanting to start an actual tune!).
Once again, good luck. Mostly, we just have to "play as if no one's listening", to butcher a popular aphorism.
Hang in there. We're with ya, sister!
Deja Fu: The sense that somewhere, somehow, you've been kicked in the head exactly like this before.
- Jayhawk
- Posts: 3907
- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Well, just trying to update my avatar after a decade. Hope this counts! Ok, so apparently I must babble on longer.
- Location: Lawrence, KS
- Contact:
I agree fully with Cathy. Plus, if you can find an opportunity to play on a street corner or in a park - anywhere strangers are nearby - is a little less stressful than playing for people you know and care about their opinion of you. The more often you do it, the more relaxed you are. Also, if you can find somewhere where young, pre-school aged children are and play it can really get you over the hump of playing in front of others. Having a group of 3 years olds dancing at your feet is fun and somehow makes you forget you're nervous (I speak from experience).
Still, no matter how comfortable you are with public performance, you can still have a really stinky time of it...
Eric
Still, no matter how comfortable you are with public performance, you can still have a really stinky time of it...
Eric
- Cathy Wilde
- Posts: 5591
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:17 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Somewhere Off-Topic, probably
Hats On, Hats Off
Oh, this is a side note, but THANKS to whoever on this forum suggested wearing a hat to hear yourself better! It happened by accident -- our Thursday sesh is outdoors, and it was still 93 degrees by the time we started, so I'd brought along my goofy tractor-drivin'/redneck-gal cowboy hat to shield me from the unrelenting sun.
And guess what? INSTANT PFB (Personal Flute Bubble)! I could hear myself just fine, even though me and the little Murray were surrounded by a button accordion, fiddles, bazoukis, guitars, and TWO banjos.
Best of all, I didn't try to play too hard, which is what happens when I can't hear. Everyone complimented me on how nice I sounded -- amazing!
So I guess others really can hear OK even when you can't hear yourself (yikes). But it was nice to think about tone, etc. for a change, which is hard for me to do in a big group when I've traditionally felt I had to belt.
Anyway, hats off to whoever suggested hats on. (I wish I could remember who you were!)
I don't know how an overweight 41-year-old fluter will look wearing a cowboy hat on St. Pat's day, but hey, at least it worked for my ears!
OK, off to sessionage -- uh-oh, I forgot the hat!
Ack!
cat.
And guess what? INSTANT PFB (Personal Flute Bubble)! I could hear myself just fine, even though me and the little Murray were surrounded by a button accordion, fiddles, bazoukis, guitars, and TWO banjos.
Best of all, I didn't try to play too hard, which is what happens when I can't hear. Everyone complimented me on how nice I sounded -- amazing!
So I guess others really can hear OK even when you can't hear yourself (yikes). But it was nice to think about tone, etc. for a change, which is hard for me to do in a big group when I've traditionally felt I had to belt.
Anyway, hats off to whoever suggested hats on. (I wish I could remember who you were!)
I don't know how an overweight 41-year-old fluter will look wearing a cowboy hat on St. Pat's day, but hey, at least it worked for my ears!
OK, off to sessionage -- uh-oh, I forgot the hat!
Ack!
cat.
Deja Fu: The sense that somewhere, somehow, you've been kicked in the head exactly like this before.
- Sliabh Luachra
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:26 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Virginia
- Contact:
Okay, don't take this the wrong way, but. . . go suck a lemon. . . or a lime. Literally. Believe it or not, my embouchure is always better after I eat citrus. Actually, I like limes better. Just be sure you don't get all that juice all over your flute. Or start drooling which is my problem. . .even without the citrus.
Of course, this doesn't address the "playing in front of people" issue, but there's been a lot of good advice here already. When I was first learning, I played for kids. They loved the music, no matter how badly I played. They're a great, very forgiving audience to learn in front of.
Bottom line, in a session, these people are your friends (except the spoons players, don't go near them). Unless you're playing completely wrong notes, incessantly noodling, being a total wanker, or are playing a bodhran, spoons, or bones, people tend to be very accepting of beginners. Especially of flute players. We aren't too loud and don't make that arythmic clackity-clackity sound that new spoons players make. Your embouchure and tone will get better in time. From what you're saying, you're no wanker, no noodler, aren't playing wrong notes, or making an ass out of yourself with a percussion instrument. Just relax and play, it's not going to bother anyone.
Mark
PS I'm sorry for. . . I mean "to". . . any percussion players I might have offended.
Of course, this doesn't address the "playing in front of people" issue, but there's been a lot of good advice here already. When I was first learning, I played for kids. They loved the music, no matter how badly I played. They're a great, very forgiving audience to learn in front of.
Bottom line, in a session, these people are your friends (except the spoons players, don't go near them). Unless you're playing completely wrong notes, incessantly noodling, being a total wanker, or are playing a bodhran, spoons, or bones, people tend to be very accepting of beginners. Especially of flute players. We aren't too loud and don't make that arythmic clackity-clackity sound that new spoons players make. Your embouchure and tone will get better in time. From what you're saying, you're no wanker, no noodler, aren't playing wrong notes, or making an ass out of yourself with a percussion instrument. Just relax and play, it's not going to bother anyone.
Mark
PS I'm sorry for. . . I mean "to". . . any percussion players I might have offended.
-
- Posts: 1468
- Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: I've been playing whistle for a very long time, but never seem to get any better than I was about 10 years ago. I'm okay with that. :)
- Location: Bloomington, Indiana
This happens to me...when I play at home I get a nice tone but when I've tried to play at our local slow session I get a weak fuzzy sound and have trouble hitting the 2nd octave consistently.
I suppose it could be due to nervousness but I'm pretty comfortable playing with these folks (on whistle anyway), and have been for a while. Although, now that this has happened a few times I'm starting to get nervous about it so it may have become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
=Brett
I suppose it could be due to nervousness but I'm pretty comfortable playing with these folks (on whistle anyway), and have been for a while. Although, now that this has happened a few times I'm starting to get nervous about it so it may have become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
=Brett
- Wormdiet
- Posts: 2575
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:17 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: GreenSliabhs
Pshaw.Kaktrot wrote:Punk & Proud?
Hey Worm, I know this is off-topic, but the world needs to know:
Flogging Molly or Dropkick Murphys?
The POGUES.
But the best "punk" band I've seen and listened to recently is Sleater-Kinney.
Actually, the sig came from a mild flamewar in which I defended the virtues of playing Irish music quickly, in the style of Molloy et al. (Don't worry - I like good slow playing just as much and often more.
OOOXXO
Doing it backwards since 2005.
Doing it backwards since 2005.
- Wormdiet
- Posts: 2575
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:17 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: GreenSliabhs
ONe thing that makes a huge difference for me is the environment. There's a coffeehouse locally that is absolutely wondrous to play in - spacious, open, with hardwood floors. The natural reverb is fantastic. Other session locales don;t have nearly the same accoustics, and my playing never sounds as good there.Bretton wrote:This happens to me...when I play at home I get a nice tone but when I've tried to play at our local slow session I get a weak fuzzy sound and have trouble hitting the 2nd octave consistently.
I suppose it could be due to nervousness but I'm pretty comfortable playing with these folks (on whistle anyway), and have been for a while. Although, now that this has happened a few times I'm starting to get nervous about it so it may have become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
=Brett
OOOXXO
Doing it backwards since 2005.
Doing it backwards since 2005.
- Easily_Deluded_Fool
- Posts: 485
- Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: The space between thoughts.
Re: the deserting embouchure......
I was at a concert 2 years ago,Berti66 wrote: snip your embouchure deserts you (the coward!) and there you are, and nothing to let them have a listen to, making a fool of yourself, you feel.
snip But maybe all you fluters further down the road could help us noobs how you did handle this yourself, maybe with some suggestions how to cure this
happy tooting
berti
where a person who is an Irish Flute Champion, in one of the very tops
ITM groups touring the world couldn't get a peep out of his
Grinter flute when it was his turn to start off.
Twice he tried to start, and couldn't 'get it'.
When the other band group members started to take the rise,
everybody laughed, and then everything worked as it should.
Nobody in the audience really minded.
It was 'one of those things' that show
even the top stars are human and mess up now and then,
(and therefore hope for the rest of us!)
and that trying too hard makes things worse.
Also, chatting to the group after the concert,
in the bar - where else the group thought
the concert was not one of their better performances,
and while from their point of view maybe true,
to the rest of us it was brilliant, so yer perception
makes a difference too.
HTH
No whistles were harmed in the transmission of this communication.
- BMFW
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Scotland
Re: Hats On, Hats Off
Is anyone else building up a mental picture of Cat?Cathy Wilde wrote:so I'd brought along my goofy tractor-drivin'/redneck-gal cowboy hat to shield me from the unrelenting sun.
OR
Sorry Cat! But just to make it up to you, here's some redneck lichen!!!
Ah, the mighty 6020 Series Utility tractor from John Deere - yeee hawww!
(Is anyone getting the impression that I am bored at work today?)
"My second cousin, his name was Calloway,
He died when he'd barely turned two,
It was peanut butter and jelly that did it,
The help, she didn't know what to do,
She just stood there and she watched him turn blue"
(Just to add to the Lyle Lovett vibe from the other thread!)
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.