11-year-old escapes felony trial

[jsluder]

But... *she's* the one that got arrested and had to go through (still does, I think) a lot of crap, while they got nothing, except the little guy who got hit back. *He* may have learned a good lesson, but the others?... I don't think they are likely to have learned much except the "don't get caught" part.

"Adults loved to say things like that but kids knew better. We knew darn well it was always better not to get caught." -- A Christmas Story

[springrobin]

Lest this seem a bit extreme, let me tell you that this boy is one sick kid. He developed a fixation on Jo that, frankly, has been rather scary. If she's outside, he just stands and stares at her. I've caught him going around the community pool telling other kids not to talk to her, then just standing in one place repeating her name over and over, like a mantra (and this is YEARS later!). To cap things off, we found out about a year after this incident that he'd pushed another little girl down into the bushes and tried to simulate intercourse with her (this was when he was about 9 or so). Of course, his parents still believe he can do no wrong. My husband calls him "a rapist in training."

Now that's frightening! That kid needs therapy, but with his parents in denial it's not likely to happen. Years down the road, someone will be asking why nothing was done...

I'd have to wonder where he learned this behavior.....

[Flyingcursor]

You Go Jsluder.

I got picked on in 5th grade all year. Finally fought back and this kid never picked on me again.

My daughters were taught not to take it. My youngest was getting picked on for about two weeks by a kid on the bus stop. I didn't even know about it. Anyway the kid hit her with a stick one day so she knocked him down and punched him in the nose. Bloodied him up good. I didn't find out about the whole thing till some months later. I asked her why she didn't tell me and she said "Why? I took care of it." It does a Dad proud.

I'm proud to say the inevitable hasn't happened. I'm glad to see we are all actually agreeing for the most part about the whole subject.

[I.D.10-t]

I'm proud to say the inevitable hasn't happened. I'm glad to see we are all actually agreeing for the most part about the whole subject.

I do feel uneasy with the might makes right situation. It just reminds me of how children are often forced to handle things out side of the system. Often the boys will be boys attitude allows children to do things that would be grounds for an arrest if they were adults. It seems to be this lack of protection that causes children to join gangs.

I was fortunate; I never had to get into a fight. Then I was never bullied by any one person for an extended period.

[anniemcu]

I'm proud to say the inevitable hasn't happened. I'm glad to see we are all actually agreeing for the most part about the whole subject.

I do feel uneasy with the might makes right situation. It just reminds me of how children are often forced to handle things out side of the system. Often the boys will be boys attitude allows children to do things that would be grounds for an arrest if they were adults. It seems to be this lack of protection that causes children to join gangs.

I was fortunate; I never had to get into a fight. Then I was never bullied by any one person for an extended period.

This is a prevailing attitude in the Public School System - has been since I was in it way back when... and it still is. The kid who starts/causes the problem gets ignored or defended while the kid who reports/responds to the problem gets punished. It is wrong, destructive and teaches that the rules mean nothing and that adults won't stand up for you when you've been wronged. Not a very good basis for responsible behavior, and, IMHO, the beginnings of a lot of the discipline problems we've seen in the schools and not a small part of the deteriorization of civil society. (that's a descriptive noun, BTW, not a definitive one)

Edited to add... and the biggest part of the problem is that the few adults on hand do not pay (actually, probably *can*not) pay attention to so many kids.

[Tyler]

I'm proud to say the inevitable hasn't happened. I'm glad to see we are all actually agreeing for the most part about the whole subject.

I do feel uneasy with the might makes right situation. It just reminds me of how children are often forced to handle things out side of the system. Often the boys will be boys attitude allows children to do things that would be grounds for an arrest if they were adults. It seems to be this lack of protection that causes children to join gangs.

I was fortunate; I never had to get into a fight. Then I was never bullied by any one person for an extended period.

This is a prevailing attitude in the Public School System - has been since I was in it way back when... and it still is. The kid who starts/causes the problem gets ignored or defended while the kid who reports/responds to the problem gets punished. It is wrong, destructive and teaches that the rules mean nothing and that adults won't stand up for you when you've been wronged. Not a very good basis for responsible behavior, and, IMHO, the beginnings of a lot of the discipline problems we've seen in the schools and not a small part of the deteriorization of civil society. (that's a descriptive noun, BTW, not a definitive one)

Edited to add... and the biggest part of the problem is that the few adults on hand do not pay (actually, probably *can*not) pay attention to so many kids.

I would like to say in advance that I am not proud of my past actions----I was a VERY different person....
During and after high school I rebuilt a Harley Sportster and fell in with a younger Hells Angels crowd. I frequently employed their help when dealing with folks that would bully my three younger sisters. To this day, despite my cleaned up reputation and family man status(((and Mini))) the younger bothers and sisters of those bullies actively avoid harrassing another child bearing the same last name, regardless of relation.
It was not a constructive or posative solution to the problem....but fear was definately a useful tool against bullies (because they are cowards at heart).

[DCrom]

Getting back to the original case cited - (I can't add anything to Redwolf's thread - that's a seriously creepy kid) -

I was one of the ones going "*What* were the cops thinking?" But I've been reading the news stories and have listened to lots of people discussing it.

One thing that came up (it's word of mouth from a caller to a local radio station, so I can't guarantee its veracity) was that a lot of the surrounding circumstances had been left out. He said that he'd talked with Fresno PD officers who knew the circumstance, and they told him that:

1) This is a very big 11 year old - not fat, but very tall and physically mature. She is a LOT taller and stronger than the boy involved. Even though she's only a couple of years older than the boy, when the officers arrived on the scene they found what appeared to be a much larger and older teenager (adult size and strength) who'd just hit a scrawny kid on the head with a sizeable rock.

2) The other kid involved was down on the ground, dazed, and covered with blood. The girl was standing over him and yelling threats. When the officers tried to get her to calm down, move away from the kid on the ground, and tell them what had happened, she got more excited and started fighting police when they tried to move her away from the (bloody and dazed) kid on the ground.

3) They didn't know her age until AFTER they had her restrained and in custody.

I don't know how true statements are - word of mouth from someone I don't know - but none of them contradict the stories I've seen published.

If the circumstances had been the same, except that the girl had been - say - 15, I don't think anyone would have serious issues about the police behaviour on the scene. And - if true - I honestly can't see anything out of line about the police's behavior. Kids mature at different rates, and to the best of their knowlege they were dealing with a good-sized teen who'd just done serious damage to a "little kid" and was being violently uncooperative with the responding officers.

Regarding the charges filed - that's not a police decision, but that of the District Attorney. Go ahead and criticize him all you want - I'm much more ambivalent there.

Of course, if (as claimed) the other kids had started attacking HER first with rocks, I'll also admit thinking that they got just what they deserved. But again - even if true - I can't expect the cop's initial response to take that into account.

[anniemcu]

I do feel uneasy with the might makes right situation. It just reminds me of how children are often forced to handle things out side of the system. Often the boys will be boys attitude allows children to do things that would be grounds for an arrest if they were adults. It seems to be this lack of protection that causes children to join gangs.

I was fortunate; I never had to get into a fight. Then I was never bullied by any one person for an extended period.

This is a prevailing attitude in the Public School System - has been since I was in it way back when... and it still is. The kid who starts/causes the problem gets ignored or defended while the kid who reports/responds to the problem gets punished. It is wrong, destructive and teaches that the rules mean nothing and that adults won't stand up for you when you've been wronged. Not a very good basis for responsible behavior, and, IMHO, the beginnings of a lot of the discipline problems we've seen in the schools and not a small part of the deteriorization of civil society. (that's a descriptive noun, BTW, not a definitive one)

Edited to add... and the biggest part of the problem is that the few adults on hand do not pay (actually, probably *can*not) pay attention to so many kids.

I would like to say in advance that I am not proud of my past actions----I was a VERY different person....
During and after high school I rebuilt a Harley Sportster and fell in with a younger Hells Angels crowd. I frequently employed their help when dealing with folks that would bully my three younger sisters. To this day, despite my cleaned up reputation and family man status(((and Mini))) the younger bothers and sisters of those bullies actively avoid harrassing another child bearing the same last name, regardless of relation.
It was not a constructive or posative solution to the problem....but fear was definately a useful tool against bullies (because they are cowards at heart).

I'm glad you have figured it out, but you wouldn't have needed to resort to such tactics if the *responsible* adults had taken that responsibility seriously. I don't advocate living a kid's life for them, or intervening at every little thing, but I *do* think that as adults, expecially as parents and teachers, and police officers, we have the responsibility to be on hand for kids at all times. (yes, I do mean at all times... not necessarily in the BR, mind you, but within ear shot and arms' reach) to help these difficulties get dealt with in a more appropriate manner. A kid shouldn't have to get driven to the point of beating the bejaysus out of another kid just to keep from getting maulled all the time. And, kids should know that they can trust, and count on the adults in their lives - of course, that means that we have to *be* adults (at least in some areas of behavior ).

I know it would have helped my life if more of the supposedly responsible adults had actually lived up to that.)

[I.D.10-t]

....but fear was definately a useful tool against bullies (because they are cowards at heart).

Yep, people left me alone because they thought that I was a psycho. (I found this out years later) Bullies that I hung out with were much like a beaten dog, dangerous to others but often crumble when a larger force comes around .

[jsluder]

From an LA Times article:

"The other day her cousins came to play with her and a police helicopter flew by," said her father, Martin Cuevas. "Maribel ran inside as soon as she heard it."

Will she ever be able to trust the police? Will she go to them if she ever really needs them? It's a sad incident, all around.

[s1m0n]

It's not as simple as that, unfortunately.

In north America, we rank a whistle blower somewhere below "politician" and "lawyer" and just above "child abuser" on the scale.

Kids--and everyone, in fact--face *very* strong pressure to NOT report being bullied. It's easy to say "tell an adult" but it's not always the truth that this will be welcomed, and even if followed, this advice comes with social repercussions.

[jsluder]

Kids--and everyone, in fact--face *very* strong pressure to NOT report being bullied. It's easy to say "tell an adult" but it's not always the truth that this will be welcomed, and even if followed, this advice comes with social repercussions.

True. When I was in school (and I assume this still occurs), kids who told an adult about other kids' wrongdoing were quickly labelled as "rat" or "narc" or "tattle-tale". While these "rats" were often left alone, they were also left alone (i.e., no friends). This kind of peer pressure can be very influential. Joining a clique was a self-defense mechanism. If you had enough friends around, you didn't get bullied. Basically, nearly everyone belonged to a "gang" of some sort, though usually they weren't violent. (And this was a rural county school in Tennessee.)

[fiddleronvermouth]

There were police helicopters after my 15 year old cousin a while ago. It's really irritating to know my tax dollars are going to pay to send police helicopters chasing after wayward teenagers. Wouldn't it be cheaper just to send a cop or two over to their homes in the middle of Degrassi?

[Cynth]

Just adding my two cents even though I don't really know the facts in this case for sure.

1. Water balloons can hurt pretty darn bad. You don't need stitches, that's true. But it isn't just a matter of getting wet.

2. I cannot even say how tired I got of boys doing stuff to me when I was little. Punching in the stomach, throwing firecrackers, throwing rocks, throwing rocks inside snowballs (that one bled pretty good), I could just go on and on. I was looking around myself every step of the way so I didn't run into them. I'm sure boys had this problem too. I wouldn't have had the first idea of how to fight back and I wouldn't have dared to anyway. It was all in different towns, I wasn't a special target, it just seemed like that was what life was supposed to be like.

3. Even once as an adult I was attacked by a gang of little boys throwing rocks! Well, sir, I chased those little buggers and I caught one by the neck of his shirt. And I booted him in the rear (very gently, but enough to establish that I was no longer taking any s**t from little boys) and I told him he'd better watch who he picked on in the future. And off he ran. I'm sure I didn't impress him but I was very impressed with myself. I wouldn't dare fight back someone my size of course, but I now feel safe from little boys.

I can sympathize with the girl, yet if she fought with the police that would indicate a problem to me. I think at 11 I knew what sorts of things would really hurt someone, but maybe she was trying to make it so they wouldn't dare attack her again. I don't know. It's complicated. Brilliant contribution, Cynth.

[Redwolf]

What amazes me is that Fresno evidently doesn't have cops who speak Spanish. The articles say the girl speaks almost no English (and, in fact, might have had grounds for a mistrial if they'd actually taken this to court, as her Miranda rights were only read to her in English). The police might have been able to diffuse the situation if one of the officers could have spoken to her in Spanish. This is California, for heaven's sake!

Redwolf