Help with picking Low Flute key, B or Bb?

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:09 pm

Hi people!

Now, maybe you could help me picking a key for a new Tipple speckled bore flute. I want either the Low B, or Low Bb, I'm just not sure which would be better for me at this point.

I only play at home, mostly improvising and picking out tunes from memory or as they come out, just for the fun of playing. I occasionally play along with cds too. That made me wonder. Which would be best for a key to play along with most Irish and Scottish music? I think the Bb would be more versatile, but not knowing a lot of music theory (large understatement!), maybe a B flute would serve.

Of course, the B would be easier to finger with less stretch, so that is why I am considering it, and still getting those Low Tones that I love!

I also have considered buying a conical bore Bb at some point in the future, and possibly in delrin. That would have an easier finger stretch than the Bb cylindrical Tipple.

Any thoughts of which might be more useful for playing along with Celtic music (not necessarily the melody), would be appreciated! Thank you!

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:17 pm

To my knowledge, Bb is more often used in celtic music.
I believe bagpipes use it a good deal, but our wise
participants can add to this. When flute is recorded
in one of these keys, its Bb, usually.

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:40 pm

If you'd like to play with others eventually, I'd go for Bb. Some uilleann pipes are in B (but I see Bb sets more often) and Bb whistles are much more common than those in B. Fiddlers can tune down, so it's not an issue for them.

If you have smallish hands, though, B might be an easier finger stretch than Bb, especially on a Tipple, but the difference is probably not that great. On most Bb flutes, the finger stretch is not so dramatically different from that of a D flute; the big difference is the distance from the embouchure hole to the first finger hole. That takes some getting used to!

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:58 pm

Why not an A?

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:11 pm

Henke wrote:Why not an A?

My thoughts exactly.

For session purposes, neither a B nor a Bb will be very compatible unless you are playing in an Eb session (for the Bb only). However, with an A flute + C natural key added, you get all the notes available on a D flute, ready to play in a D session.

Disadavantages are size, weight, cost, and available makers. The ones I know of are Terry McGee, Casey Burns, and Peter Noy. I'd bet other makers might have a go at one too.

For soloing, whatever ya like

A higher pitched flute will be easier to sound and less of a finger stretch. The compromise is that you might lose some of the sonority of a lower pitched flute.

Or, screw it, get an Alpenhorn!

EDIT: I misread most of your post in my enthusiasm

- if yer talking Tipple, I'd get the lowest one you can finger comfortably. A low conical flute will cost serious $$$, starting with a CB at around $600 rock bottom but getting into quadruple digits very very quickly. And, delrin would be quite heavy for a conical low flute.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:33 pm

Wormdiet wrote:EDIT: I misread most of your post in my enthusiasm - if yer talking Tipple, I'd get the lowest one you can finger comfortably. A low conical flute will cost serious $$$, starting with a CB at around $600 rock bottom but getting into quadruple digits very very quickly. And, delrin would be quite heavy for a conical low flute.

I have to admit that I didn't read very well at first eighter. I didn't see the Tipple thing...

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:05 pm

OK, it sounds like the B is the odd duck for Celtic music. So, it seems it wouldn't be very useful to play along in harmony either, looking at the scale notes and the various keys on Chiff's guide to Keys.

I figured the Bb would be the better choice, but I thought I would ask about the B, if it had any practical use, other than solo, or with the right set of pipes.

I'm not really looking for a session instrument, but rather for solo or to play along with some CDs. I knew about the Bb connection to the Eb recordings or sessions, but nothing about B except the flat set of pipes, that I probably will never bump into, especially here at home, and not as likely on a cd either.

The A of course would be a good idea, because of the key's relation to D, if it wasn't in a cylindrical flute like the Tipple, which is what I will buy for now. The lowest Tipple is a Bb. I probably can play an inline version, but it will be a good stretch. I don't even want to think of what a cylindrical A would take to play!

I would like to end up with a Bb conical bore flute, when finances allow. But for now, a Tipple is in my price range, and I want that low sound. There is quite a difference between the B and the Bb in stretch, in these cylindrical flutes from Doug's specs. I'm sure the B would be a piece of cake for me, but not so sure of the Bb. I guess I could always sell the Bb if it didn't work for me in the stretch department! But, I may play the B more, if it fits me that much better!

Some of life's big decisions are tough!

Thanks for your help, guys!

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:43 pm

I have never played a Bb but if stretch is a problem with the last hole, ask Doug if using your pinkie on the last hole makes the stretch more comfortable. This I do on other straight bore flutes.
Nelson

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:49 pm

Sounds like a Bb is right up your alley then.

I tried a Bb recently (Grinter lancewood - gorgeous!) and the stretch was not fun for me. YMMV. If you eventually get a conical one, and the stretch is nasty (Try somebody else's beforehand) some makers including CB and Terry will make Siccama keys. These are for R3 and L3, and move the finger position up the flute for significantly less stretch. As an added bonus, they allow better accoustic positioning for the tone holes.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:50 am

Dear Greenspiderweb,
My advice to you is - be conservative.
There are two Tipple flutes that are already pretty amenable for Irish music without challenging your finger and your transposition stretch:-

* the D flute, and
* the Eb flute

Good Luck

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:41 am

Nelson wrote:I have never played a Bb but if stretch is a problem with the last hole, ask Doug if using your pinkie on the last hole makes the stretch more comfortable. This I do on other straight bore flutes.
Nelson

Hi Nelson, I did try Doug's Low Bb with the 3rd and 6th holes offset-which is perfect for using your pinkie, you're right. I just found that very awkward. I would much rather have the 2nd and 5th holes offset along with the 3rd and 6th, so the angle of the hands would be better, or most likely the best for me, inline to use the piper's grip to best advantage, but still a stretch.

Talasiga wrote:Dear Greenspiderweb,
My advice to you is - be conservative.
There are two Tipple flutes that are already pretty amenable for Irish music without challenging your finger and your transposition stretch:-

* the D flute, and
* the Eb flute

Good Luck

Thank you, Talasiga, but I definitely want a lower key flute, so it will either be B or Bb (I have the D flute, and Low Eb whistle). I'm not worried about transposing, because I just play by ear (maybe a better description, by the seat of my pants!) and also improvise a lot. I was more interested in what key would work best, and it seems the Bb is the winner, if I want to play along with Celtic CDs. If I want to only have a deep toned flute for solo playing, the B would be my choice.

So, I would think my decision would be based on what I think I would play more, because of comfort (B) or compatability with the music (Bb).
But, my choice will be the Tipple speckled bore, which ever one I decide on, that's the easy choice!

ChristianRo · Post by **ChristianRo** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:43 am

Barry, if your main goal is to play along with CDs, you could also change the recording's pitch with a software like Slow Downer or a CD player with integrated pitch shifter (DJ equipment). You might do your hands and arms a favour.

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:58 am

If you want to play a low flute to recordings, more and more are being made with Bb flutes. . .typically just a few tracks on a "solo flute" CD. Certainly more than A or B.

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:17 am

Ronan Browne and Peter O'Loughlin's gorgeous recording "Touch Me If You Dare" is mostly in B, with a couple forrays into Eb and Bb.

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:22 pm

Christian,
That's an interesting prospect, but I suspect I will play solo most of all. It's good to know that is available, though, thanks!

Wormdiet,
Yes, Bb does seem to be the most popular choice. If there were no significant difference in the stretch on the clylindrical Tipple flute (but there is), I would just go with the Bb and not look back!

Tintin,
Thanks for the tip about Ronan and Peter's CD. I'm going to see if I can find some sound samples of it somewhere. If you like it that much, it must be worth a listen, and should be interesting to hear what B sounds like as a key in Irish music, along with the Bb tracks, thanks!

I appreciate the input! You never know what can turn the tide in decisions, and it's always good to have options!