A united Ireland...?

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IRTradRU?
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Post by IRTradRU? »

Montana wrote: Older places can sometimes have better construction and a lot more detail (and care) than newer places. And they don't take up acres of land.
I think that if that method were truly so, it would be the rule rather than the exception.

A perfect example of this is my cousin out in Connemara. They had a "quaint" cottage as recently as 1985. No electric, no running water, etc.

They built a new, "modern" home in 1986, built directly in front of the old cottage. I asked my cousin why he didn't modernize the old cottage. And then he (with a laugh) explained the facts of it, in plain economic terms.
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Montana
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Post by Montana »

Well, I did say "sometimes" and the claim had mainly to do with the basic structure, not all the newfangled things that have come along recently (ya know, running water, electrical wiring, etc.). :wink:
Yes, my house had some old knob and tube wiring and old plumbing can be a pain. I know these things. But the things that cause the problems are all the modern "requirements". I know no one wants to live in a place with just candles and an outhouse. But you don't have a lot to maintain or upgrade much that way... :twisted:
IRTradRU?
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Post by IRTradRU? »

I know what you're saying, Montana, but those "basic structures" of most of the cottages that I've seen simply can't be modernized from an engineering standpoint.

For example, the ah, "mortar" that is used to hold the stones together in my cousin's old cottage is made from - get this - the crushed coral that was washed up on the beach nearby. You can see all manner of seashells and bits of crustaceans in it... and simply poking at it with a finger caused it to crumble (and I'll grant you, the cottage is now 90+ years on) but when you consider having to excavate the dirt floor in order to pour concrete, and the place would literally crumble around you as you're doing that type of heavy work.
Cayden

Post by Cayden »

Montana wrote: Not all things that are old are broken-down and dreary, just like all new things aren't beautiful and nice.
I like the old houses, Irish farmhouses are usually very basic, even if they can have lovely stonework, especially the fireplaces (but try find one that sends the smoke up the chimney instead of into the room and out the front and backdoor). It's a terrible shame they are disappearing so rapidly but living in a stone cottage myself I have come to see why.
Planning in Ireland is atrocious and i won't even start on it. You'll see wha tI mean, there's plenty yet to enjoy but it's not by far the place it was twenty five years ago, or even ten.
IRTradRU?
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Post by IRTradRU? »

Peter Laban wrote:Planning in Ireland is atrocious and i won't even start on it. You'll see wha tI mean, there's plenty yet to enjoy but it's not by far the place it was twenty five years ago, or even ten.
No doubt - developers (with money in hand) have been allowed to run amok. The stuff going up along N17 in Galway (near Oranmore) is particularly ugly (a lot of it is industrial and retail)... and this is the first view that locals and visitors alike get when entering Galway city.

Then there's more of it going up along the coast road as well.

On the other hand, all that building has kept a great many people employed for some time.
Cayden

Post by Cayden »

IRTradRU? wrote: On the other hand, all that building has kept a great many people employed for some time.
Ofcourse but so would have building but with different designs and planning. The country will have a price to pay for building with a total disregard for the landscape and proper planning.
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SteveShaw
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Post by SteveShaw »

Peter Laban wrote:
IRTradRU? wrote: On the other hand, all that building has kept a great many people employed for some time.
Ofcourse but so would have building but with different designs and planning. The country will have a price to pay for building with a total disregard for the landscape and proper planning.
Just outside the seaside town in Cornwall where I live, several new "estates" have sprung up in the last 20 or 30 years. To say the new houses have no individuality or character would be an understatement. If you live in one of these houses your view is simply of the other houses, all the same as yours, all built for cheapness. The roads between are so straight that the boy-racers can belt down them, endangering the little kids who just want to play out in the time-honoured way of little kids. Many of the houses suffer from severe condensation problems - something unknown to me in my late-Victorian house in the middle of fields. If you walk to the top of any hill around here there are views to take your breath away, taking in the Atlantic, the moors inland and the magnificent sea-cliffs and beaches. But you'd have no inkling of this on the estates even though you're a quarter of a mile or less from the sea. Even the picturesque village nearby, Marhamchurch, where my children went to primary school, has got this estate blight all around it now. The argument runs that if the estates weren't there the school, shop/post office and (heaven forfend!) the pub would have to close.
I think we've all gone mad.

Steve
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Post by Wormdiet »

Too many f&*#$eckin ppl. Everywhere.
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Wombat
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Post by Wombat »

There are compromises that can be made that help. It's along time since I was in the Greek Islands but they had strict rules on modernisation. Houses could only be so large. The had to be built basically in the style of peasant cottages or traditional city two story houses. If built in the peasant style, they had to be white with blue window frames just like all the others. They didn't have to be damp or drafty or expensive to build but they did have to blend in. I thought the compromise worked very well.
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buddhu
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Post by buddhu »

SteveShaw wrote:
Peter Laban wrote:
Montana wrote: I cruised through a couple of Irish real estate websites and saw things that made me queasy - blocky houses strung out around cul-de-sacs and advertised as "holiday homes", often in areas that were once pastoral farms with old rock walls.
.....Bungalow blight, it's everywhere.

On the other hand, if you'd live in an old cottage for a while you could imagine reasons for tearing it down and rebuild something more damp-proof, I can tell you that much. :wink:
Peter responds in a measured way as as ever. It's all very nice having chocolate-box dinky thatched cottages for condescending, ignorant tourists to come and salivate over, but people in rural Ireland/ Cornwall/wherever want to live in the 21st century like everyone else, believe it or not, not in some golden age of glorious peasantry, wearing a smock and leaning over the five-barred gate sucking on a straw. Now bad planning decisions and the usurping of "desirable" rural areas for the pleasure of four-weeks-a-year Volvo Estate-driving second home owners - that's what we should be railing against. :evil:

Steve
Nah. I'll take the golden age of glorious peasantry, Steve. Having moved back out of town to a very small village about 3 and a half years ago (I grew up in a small village but spent 30 years in towns and cities), I would live in a tent before going back to 'civilisation'.

Modern, materialist life is crap. If I could find a quiet corner of England or Ireland (Scotland's a bit too far north climate-wise otherwise that'd be on the list too) that would never fall prey to the developers I'd live there with or without electricity, gas, telephone etc.

My wife is from Cornwall, and we usually holiday in SW Ireland. I love both places and seeing the erosion makes me sick.
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izzarina
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Post by izzarina »

buddhu wrote:Modern, materialist life is crap. If I could find a quiet corner of England or Ireland (Scotland's a bit too far north climate-wise otherwise that'd be on the list too) that would never fall prey to the developers I'd live there with or without electricity, gas, telephone etc.
I agree entirely. I would gladly live in a damp little cottage with no electricity or running water, etc. if I could do it. Here in the U.S., it's virtually impossible now (well, unless your Amish....but even they are required to succumb to modern type "conveniences" far too often).
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Charlene
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Post by Charlene »

Got this in a recent e-mail:
LIFE IN THE 1500'S
>>>
The next time you are washing your hands and complain because the
Water temperature isn't just how you like it, think about how things
used to be. Here are some facts about the 1500s:
>>>
These are interesting...
Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath
in May, and still smelled pretty good by June. However, they were
starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odor.
Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting married.
>>>
Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the
house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons
and men, then the women and finally the children Last of all the babies.
By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone
in it. Hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."
>>>
Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood
underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the
cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and off the roof.
Hence the saying "It's raining cats and dogs."
There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house. This
posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings
could mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed with big posts and a
sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That's how canopy beds came into existence.
>>>
The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt.
Hence the saying "dirt poor."
>>>
The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when
wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on floor to help keep their footing.
As the winter wore on, they added more thresh until when you opened
the door it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was
placed in the entranceway. Hence the saying a "threshhold."
>>>
(Getting quite an education, aren't you?)
In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that
always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and added things
to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much meat. They
would eat the stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold
overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes stew had food in
it that had been there for quite a while. Hence the rhyme, "Peas porridge
hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old."
Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special.
When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show off.
>>>
It was a sign of wealth that a man could "bring home the bacon."
They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit
around and "chew the fat."
>>>
Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with high acid
content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead
poisoning death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the
next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.
>>>
Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom
of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or
"upper crust."
>>>
Lead cups were used to drink ale or whiskey. The combination would
sometimes knock the imbibers out for a couple of days. Someone walking
along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial.
They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family
would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would
wake up. Hence the custom of holding a "wake."
>>>
England is old and small and the local folks started running out of
places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would
take the bones to a "bone-house" and reuse the grave. When reopening
these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on
the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they
would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and
up through the ground and tie it to a bell.
Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the
"graveyard shift") to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be
"saved by the bell" or was considered a "dead ringer."
>>>
And that's the truth... Now, whoever said that History was boring ! !
>>> Educate someone...Share these facts with a friend
I've got the same thing in print from the gift shop at the replica of Anne Hathaway's cottage near Victoria, British Columbia. Don't know how true any of it is, but it's fun to read!

I like indoor plumbing, electricity, central heating, and Internet access! :D

Still, it would look nicer if the outside of any new buildings had to match the style of the older ones. But there go the building costs sky-high.
Charlene
Cayden

Post by Cayden »

buddhu wrote: Modern, materialist life is crap. If I could find a quiet corner of England or Ireland (Scotland's a bit too far north climate-wise otherwise that'd be on the list too) that would never fall prey to the developers I'd live there with or without electricity, gas, telephone etc.
I have a sheltered half acre and the stone cottage. Goodbye city, bes tthing I ever did. The first two years there was only the water from the roof and two rooms that were not as derelict as the others.
Some modern conveniences aren't too bad you come to realise when having a crap in the field pelted by 80 mph horizontal hailstones.
Having the water in from the well we drilled eventually and having the range inplace to heat the radiators made all the difference. I did spend most of last week stacking the load of turf (a trailerload, six or seven tons of it) that was delivered into the shed. Ah, country life. :wink:
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BigDavy
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Post by BigDavy »

buddhu wrote
Modern, materialist life is crap. If I could find a quiet corner of England or Ireland (Scotland's a bit too far north climate-wise otherwise that'd be on the list too)
Hi buddhu

Try the borders area around Dumfries - nice area, lots of quaint villages, relatively easy access to motorway and train links, mild climate. (We are not a frozen wasteland you know, it was over 90f 2 weeks ago). Or try the cental belt area - access to lots of sessions and trad music (7 days a week if you are willing to travel). Plus house prices significantly lower than Hertfordshire.

David
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izzarina
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Post by izzarina »

Peter Laban wrote: Some modern conveniences aren't too bad you come to realise when having a crap in the field pelted by 80 mph horizontal hailstones.
Yes, I could definitely see where having indoor plumbing and running water might be a benefit after this rather vivid post :lol: So I take that part back. But I would still love to live where I can find more simplicity than I have now. Despite it's smaller size, the city I live in is way too fast paced for my liking.
Someday, everything is gonna be diff'rent
When I paint my masterpiece.
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