whats the deal with Uilleann pipers & pipemakers?

[shackleton]

just something i've noticed...when a highland piper picks up the pipes, they dont care about how there made or even sometimes who made them( im not saying that pipemaker is not important). But, when a Uilleann piper pickes up a set of pipes, they ponder about how there made, by who, and when. Maybe what time of year they were made, or how many pipes were made by the pipemaker before this one. Then they are told they might have to learn how to make reeds. umm..ok. and sometimes not just one, but 7 reeds, sometimes more. umm..ok. The question is why are UPrs more intrested in making pipes then Highland pipers making GHBs? Maybe im wrong. There is alot more highland pipers then UPrs, so maybe its a population kind of thing. If not, why whould people be more attracted to something that might be 3 or 4 times harder to make? And I know GHB pipers and UP pipers are compleatly differnt animals. Maybe im crazy about UPs? Rorschach tests are fun!

Just something to think about. if you have any input, i would love to hear it.

Christian Shackleton

[djm]

Chris, consider that UPs are capable of so much more than GHBs - ability to play stacatto, ability to play at least 2 octaves, ability to turn the drones off at will, ability to add chordal accompaniment, ability to play Irish music, which is so much better than Scottish music.

These greater abilities of the UPs come at a cost - the set must be well made to be playable and to last, the reeds must be made to much stricter standards than GHB reeds to meet the greater demands that are made on them. People obsess about the make and maker as it can have such a significant effect on their ability to make great music on UPs.

djm

[chanterdan]

wrong,highland pipers care as much about their pipes as any up player,tell that to fred morrison.i own a set of hendersons from the 1870s,i paid 7000.us for them.i also play ups, there are more gh pipers,only a handfull that can play, and tune their pipes,and blow good tone. there are lots of lousey players in the world,who put on a kilt and think that they are pipers.only 9 notes,thats why the gracing is so much more complicated ,and takes lots of practice to play it right. alot of the uilleann tunes are also played ghb,and visa versa.there are some great pipers out there that play all three , uilleanns, border,and ghbs....my two cents.

[Luke Nieuwsma]

But despite the great tradition of GHB, the instrument just isn't as complicated to play. You squeeze a bag (albeit with enough pressure to burst a pigskin), you blow, and you play tunes on a chanter(with indeed many difficult embellishments). Now UP's have chanter and bag, just like that, but then also there's a bellows, which for some reason is far harder to use than just breathing. And then you have to get used to two separate pressures for the two octaves. And on that's just the practice set. Then comes drones, keeping a steady tone that doesn't wander up or down. And learning how to flip them on and off in the middle of playing. And when you think your musical brain is stuffed to the brim, THEN you learn about... regulators. Really, in terms of operational complexity, there's no comparison. I don't mean any disrespect to all of you GHB'ers out there. I know that the conditioned reflexes, the birls and all that, are not easy. But the GHB is a simpler weapon, with a lot less features, and a lot less players.

[Birl]

The real question is not which pipes is the most difficult to play (It is a bit like a child question : who is the stronger, elephant or hippopotamus ? )
To stay on topic, I think that it's always difficult for a piper to find the good reed for his pipes (whatever the pipes), I mean a reed with a brilliant full sound (yes, GHB pipers can make the difference between a good and a stuff reed ! ). For the drones, it is the same, even if there is now very good synthetics for ghB pipes.
Reeds is the most important in pipes, but in GHB like in UP, or any other instruments, there is good and bad instrument (even pakistani ones !). The rule in GBH is roughly the older the better (I mean pipes wich has been made before 1950s like Henderson, Reid ....) and as it is said in this discussion, some can be buy for a lot of money. But it is also true that you can have a correct "semi-industrial" GHB for a relative low cost, while UPs are mostly made by craftsmen. One reason because GHB pipers don't ask for the origine of the pipes is that they recognize them. There is quite a few makers (less than in UPs I think). They much more take care of the skill of the player, because a good player can play lovely on a standard pipes. (GHB or UP)
For the technics of both instruments, as I said, there is no comparison. Each have is own difficulty. The best is to (try to) play both !
Cheers !

[djones]

I have played GHB for 10 years and I can tell you that, although not _quite_ as obsessive as UP players, GHB players do indeed consider their pipes and their makers carefully. I play a nice set of Granger & Campbell's crafted in 1968 with a Naill chanter for solo competition and a Sinclair for band.

GHB players, I would say, almost never make their own reeds, but reed makers are a topic of conversation. Although the instrument is far more standardized than UPs (whch will become so as numbers of players increase), there are reeds that work better in some chanters than others and this is a topic for discussion among us.

I play UPs and GHBs and SSPs and I love them all. I am certain that there are skills that I have on some that transfer to the others. For example, I have no doubt that my skill on GHBs allowed me the finger control to learn most UP fingerings in about a week; that my SSP bellows technique allowed me to pick up the UPs right away; that my daily prafctice with UPs keeps my fingers strong and in control such that my GHB playing is enhanced even though the fingerings are different... etc.

So, now the question: you're on a lifeboat and you can only take one type of pipes with you... which do you choose?

Dave Jones

[ausdag]

So, now the question: you're on a lifeboat and you can only take one type of pipes with you... which do you choose?

Dave Jones

The GHB of course - the reeds will handle the humidity and you can drink the condensation in the bag when you run out of water. Need more water? Play more toons.

Cheers,

DavidG

[jmccain]

just something i've noticed...when a highland piper picks up the pipes, they dont care about how there made or even sometimes who made them( im not saying that pipemaker is not important)...
Just something to think about. if you have any input, i would love to hear it.

I don't know who you know, but the highland pipers I know are extremely interested in the quality, maker, and every detail about their instrument. But, I do realize there are many highland pipers who play in street bands who are unconcerned with tone and musicality. Maybe these are your acquaintances.

Few other instruments lend themselves to folks playing them so poorly in public with little or no consequences. But, there are many of us who care deeply about our instrument and sound. You just need to hang around a better class of highland pipers.

As far as how difficult one instrument is over another, it's a tie. All instruments take talent and dedication to play well.

Best, John

[Joseph E. Smith]

The GHB of course - the reeds will handle the humidity

... to a point, but they also will drown and cesae playing when too wet.

[Reepicheep]

... and you can drink the condensation in the bag when you run out of water. Need more water? Play more toons.

ouuugfht... better get a bucket...

[billh]

just something i've noticed...when a highland piper picks up the pipes, they dont care about how there made or even sometimes who made them( im not saying that pipemaker is not important). But, when a Uilleann piper pickes up a set of pipes, they ponder about how there made, by who, and when....
Christian Shackleton

The highland pipes are far more standardized than the UP ever have been. You can even buy over-the-counter reeds for highland pipes that more or less play, whereas UP reeds have to be fitted to a particular chanter in most circumstances.

So, all warpipe flamage aside, the variation among makers and sets is higher in UP, thus the question is arguably more dramatically important.

Bill

[Patrick D'Arcy]

The question is why are UPrs more intrested in making pipes then Highland pipers making GHBs? - why whould people be more attracted to something that might be 3 or 4 times harder to make?

Probably because uilleann pipes are 3 to 4 times more expensive and they want to play these things come hell or high water?

Patrick.

[maw]

Thought I might add this at the risk of being lynched by all the GHB'ers and Scots people alike out there but it is only in jest. Last year when attending a session at the Spaniard in Kinsale, Eire I was talking to one of the musician's 'bout me pipes and an Australian overhearing the conversation commented on his set that he had just bought in Scotland B4 visiting Ireland. The musician laughed and said with a cheeky Irish smile on his face..."Way back in the 18th century, we sent the GHB's to Scotland as a joke... The trouble is, they still haven't got the joke "
I thought it was funny anyway. OK, I'm ready to be hung drawn and quartered now make it quick

[Birl]

nice joke, don't worry, GHB players don't have the joke, but they have a sense of humour !
anyway, pipes are known to be in scotland since early middle ages ...

[Nanohedron]

Quoting Ciaran Carson from his Irish Traditional Music:

"...but it has to be admitted that, for those who seek to embody the spirit of the nation in a physical object, the [uilleann] pipes are an ideal hobby horse. They are thingy, complicated; they are a conversation piece. Reeds, regulators, drones, comparative length of chanters, beeswax, drones, hemp, rushes, pads, popping pads, valves, drones, can be discussed until the cows come home."

The good author forgot the weather. It's around 90F and 68% humidity hereabouts. My chanter reed's turned to mush for the time being and consequently my back D has become a thing of wild caprice if I play too long. The overall intonation has also gone a bit strange, but is doable, thankfully. The set just plain feels peevish these past few days.

See? There I go.