The best and then the rest

[rorybbellows]

What is it that that sets the A list pipemakers(froment ,K&Q ,wooff and O,Brien) so far ahead of all the other pipemakers out there?
Ive heard reviews of a lot of long established pipemakers on this forum stating them to be great pipemakers some even saying them to be the best ever, but there ,s no grtting away from the fact that these pipemakers have quite short waiting times and some even have pipes to sell off the shelf .

Bearing in mind that the quality of these b list makers pipes are very good and probably reach the expected level of good tone and tuning, what are they missing that’s just not quite putting them up there ?


RORY

[ausdag]

My guess is the ones listed above promoted themselves better initially, ie, attending Summer Schools and various Tionoil in Ireland to show off their wares and through word of mouth their reputation snow-balled. Perhaps other equally proficient makers don't have as great an opportunity to make it to Ireland very often to exhibit their pipes and so rely more on webpages and the grapevine. Add to that the advantage of having recording pipers mention the makers of their sets on their CDs - most of the above, if not all of them (not sure about O'Brien - don't think I've heard of an O'Brien maker) have pipes on various CDs around the place.

Cheers,

DavidG

[Jim McGuire]

It helps to have 100 years + pipemaking between the four of them for experience. All committed to the art full time when no one else was doing that.

[djm]

RoryB, you have just touched a tender spot in pipemaking. Its fair asking what, once a certain level of tunablity, playability, appearance has been met, should be the difference to set certain makers so far apart. The reality is that pipemakers go by reputation. Reputation is built up over time and exposure. The makers you have listed have big reputations. They have been around a long time, and many high-level players have experience with these makers' sets. (I think you might have made a typo when saying they have short waiting lists, though.)

That doesn't mean that the makers you have listed don't have their detractors, either. It really gets down to personal preferences whose sets you like.

People coming new into UPs have no opportunity to shop around and try different sets. A beginner puts their money down and then gets in line. All you can do is trust in more experienced players to help give you some suggestions.

But does that give you the best direction? No, it just steers you towards the tastes and preferences of the people whose opinion you are following. You need to expose yourself to as many pipers as possible, listen to their sound, ask them about their set(s), and try to find what suits you as time and money makes these opportunities available. The less opportunity you have to get input, the more restricted your choices become. That may not be so bad as long as you end up with a set you like.

In the end, you want to have a set you enjoy playing, that has the tone you want and the playability you want. If some of these makers get such a big reputation for delivering these things, then they can afford take the time the choose to deliver, and to charge what the market will bear.

What makes these pipemakers so great? The market place does.

djm

[Patrick D'Arcy]

Pipes that actually play in tune are rare enough. Pipes that play in tune and with good tone quite rare. Pipes that play in tune, with good tone and are structurally appealing and refined.... rarer still.

Reputation is everything and makers get them for a reason. Time tested pipes that really work are only available from a small scattering of makers. Word spreads fast and if someone is making good stuff everyone knows about it very quickly.

Personal preference is a large factor, yes. But how experienced is the person with the preference?

People coming new into UPs have no opportunity to shop around and try different sets.

Absolutely! This is precisely why tionól are so important for beginners to attend. Apart from the first class instruction, the craic and the comaraderie of course. A beginner will be exposed to many different makes of pipes and piping styles http://www.socalpipers.com

No, it just steers you towards the tastes and preferences of the people whose opinion you are following.

Very good point!

In the end, you want to have a set you enjoy playing, that has the tone you want and the playability you want.

The only problem with that is it might take you many years to figure out due to your own skil level advancement or, of course, attaining decent reeds Quality is obvious when you see/feel it though.

What makes these pipemakers so great? The market place does.

The marketplace does in regard to it discussing the pros and cons and the cream rising to the top.

It helps to have 100 years + pipemaking between the four of them for experience. All committed to the art full time when no one else was doing that.

Jim says it all!

I'm rambling.... I'll stop now

Patrick.

[wolvy]

...The Rambling Patrick....

sounds like a good name for a tune.

[Rick]

these pipemakers have quite short waiting times ...

How about..., some work harder than others?

[Joseph E. Smith]

Bearing in mind that the quality of these b list makers pipes are very good and probably reach the expected level of good tone and tuning, what are they missing that’s just not quite putting them up there ?


RORY

Most likely not enough people own their sets, hence a lower position on the totem pole.

That, and given the price of a full set, most folks want to be absolutely certain that they won't get screwed when it comes time to purchase pipes.

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

most of the above, if not all of them (not sure about O'Brien - don't think I've heard of an O'Brien maker) have pipes on various CDs around the place.

Cheers,

DavidG

I think he was referring to Cillian O Briain...whose pipes are played by such piping luminairies as Gay McKeon, the piper in Kila (can't remember his name), Billy McCormick, and myself.

[Joseph E. Smith]

I think he was referring to Cillian O Briain...whose pipes are played by such piping luminairies as Gay McKeon, the piper in Kila (can't remember his name), Billy McCormick, and myself.

New aquisition? Congrats!

[PJ]

...the piper in Kila (can't remember his name)...

Eoin Dillon. Excellent piper.

[teirw]

' It helps to have 100 years + pipemaking between the four of them for experience. All committed to the art full time when no one else was doing that.'
Jim Mc Guires comment.
I have to point out that Brian Howard was, and is, doing that.

[billh]

' It helps to have 100 years + pipemaking between the four of them for experience. All committed to the art full time when no one else was doing that.'
Jim Mc Guires comment.
I have to point out that Brian Howard was, and is, doing that.

True enough that Brian predates Cillian.

I think there are more than those 5 who have been making since before 1980. DMQ too, if you don't count his absence during the 90's

Bill

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

I think he was referring to Cillian O Briain...whose pipes are played by such piping luminairies as Gay McKeon, the piper in Kila (can't remember his name), Billy McCormick, and myself.

New aquisition? Congrats!

Sadly, no. Just the same COB half-set I've had for a while now. If anybody is interested in buying one of my kidneys, Cillian is one of the first people I'd call, though... Check back in a year or so and I may have some regulators attached...although not likely Cillian's stuff.

PS--Two other all-star pipers playing Cillian's pipes are Con Durham and our very own Alan Burton.

[Patrick D'Arcy]

Don't forget Mick Coyne! www.mickcoyne.com

PD.