D Flute vs. Low D Whistle

Montana · Post by **Montana** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:56 pm

I was just looking at the Glenn Schultz flute on Doc Jones' eBay list.
I see that the starting bid is already close to $1000.00.

I was wondering (and I imagine I'll get all kinds of answers) why flutes are so much more expensive than whistles.

Just to clarify, I'm not referring to flutes with a bunch of additional keys or those made out of silver. Just for comparison purposes, let's consider a basic wooden D flute (no keys) and a wooden (although I don't know of any out there but I'm sure there are) low D whistle. They are about the same size, have the same number and size of holes... The only difference is the head. There's even a few makers out there that have interchangeable heads so the difference should be minimal. So why do you think flutes are almost always more expensive?
(By the way, I started on flute then picked up the whistle so I'm not biased either way)

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:58 pm

They just are. I know it pisses me off too.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:26 pm

Probably a bunch of reasons. 1st of all I think a low D wooden whistle would be significantly more expensive than a metal one. I'm sure there are wooden low D's altough I can't think of one right now. Appart from being very expensive to aquire, wood needs lots of seasoning, rereaming and stuff which takes lots of time. 2nd is prabably things like the embouchure hole, undercutting of tone holes and stuff like that which has to be done carefully by hand, takes lots of time. There are simply more feathures with a flute, like making the different sections fit, tuning slide etc. A flute usually has 5 sections (Rudall and Rose body) that needs to fit together with corc wrapping etc. Then they are conical, so are lots of whistles but I haven't seen a conical wooden whistle yet.
For comparance, you might want to look at the delrin flutes and compair them to low whistles, the delrin flutes, which are amazing value and pretty similar to the wooden ones except for the material costs around $350-400, no problem finding a low whistle in that price range. There are also the cylindrical PVC flutes that goes for under $100.

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:29 pm

Montana wrote:They are about the same size, have the same number and size of holes... The only difference is the head.

That's not entirely true. Wooden simple-system flutes all have, as far as I can tell, a
conical bore. This is much, much harder to make than a cylindrical-bore Low whistle.
(Someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:31 pm

Henke wrote:Probably a bunch of reasons. 1st of all I think a low D wooden whistle would be significantly more expensive than a metal one. I'm sure there are wooden low D's altough I can't think of one right now. Appart from being very expensive to aquire, wood needs lots of seasoning, rereaming and stuff which takes lots of time. 2nd is prabably things like the embouchure hole, undercutting of tone holes and stuff like that which has to be done carefully by hand, takes lots of time. There are simply more feathures with a flute, like making the different sections fit, tuning slide etc. A flute usually has 5 sections (Rudall and Rose body) that needs to fit together with corc wrapping etc. Then they are conical, so are lots of whistles but I haven't seen a conical wooden whistle yet.
For comparance, you might want to look at the delrin flutes and compair them to low whistles, the delrin flutes, which are amazing value and pretty similar to the wooden ones except for the material costs around $350-400, no problem finding a low whistle in that price range. There are also the cylindrical PVC flutes that goes for under $100.

Sweetheart Pros are conical, but in all respects, I agree that making a flute is probably a much tougher enterprise than making a whistle.

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:34 pm

Henke wrote:...l I think a low D wooden whistle would be significantly more expensive than a metal one

There's that too. <a href="http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/ff.php">Casey Burns' Folk Flute</a> is essentially what a wooden low whistle would be:
2 pieces, no keys, nothing too fancy in the head... and it only costs $250, which is probably
far less than a wooden low whistle would be (heck, most wooden high-D whistles are more
than $250)

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:13 pm

Phil Bleazey charges the same for his low D whistle and flute: 280 BPounds.

As suggested, these instruments are essentially the same: conical bore and 6 nonkeyed holes. The only difference is the head.

I will be able to discuss the flute in more detail in a few days.

peteinmn · Post by **peteinmn** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:13 pm

This is conical and does not cost a fortune. http://www.sweetheartflute.com/irishflutes.html

One of our board members, JessieK has one and speaks pretty well of it.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:27 pm

Terry McGee has said he thinks whistle heads are much more difficult to make than flute heads (or something close to that although it could have been about rec***ers).

Steven - which flute did you get of Phils?

Eric

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 pm

The one that is listed as being "developed from a Rudall & Rose 8 keyed flute dated 1837." It is quite similar to his low D in finger hole size and spacing on my first glance.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ble ... epage.html

YES, I found it on our front porch just now. The post office is soooooo stupid. We don't have a doorbell, but I don't think they even knocked. People were home and outside or in the living room ALL DAY!!!!

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:37 pm

Looks like he stopped making his Pratten model. I've long admired the look of his flutes, and his keys look very well made.

Let us know how it plays. I know Chas likes his.

Eric

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:15 am

Wow, that keyless Bleazey is more affordable than I expected... (at least, it will be when the
$ is stronger) I can't seem to find on his flute page what materials he makes the flutes from.
Is it delrin?

Actually, Bleazey's site is a good comparison. He makes a keyless <a href="http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ble ... ">flute</a> for £280
and a wooden LowD <a href="http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ble ... whistle</a> (which looks conical), which is also £280
So, it looks like materials and keys are what start upping the price of flutes.

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:36 am

fearfaoin wrote:Wow, that keyless Bleazey is more affordable than I expected... (at least, it will be when the
$ is stronger) I can't seem to find on his flute page what materials he makes the flutes from.
Is it delrin?

Scroll down to the bottom of the page:

"We use timbers which are not endangered and which come from managed sources, ensuring a sustainable supply for the future. We normally work in the following woods:
African Blackwood, Boxwood, Mopane and Yew."

Phil doesn't like working in delrin, he used to work with the stuff as an engineer in a previous life.

It's also worth dropping him an email about his 'used' instruments too. He's a thoroughly decent chap.

I've been playing one of Phil's flutes for just over a year now (mopane, but with brass furniture unlike Steve's silver). Tis a lovely flute. Here's mine disassembled: http://www.gjk2.com/flute/bleazeyd.jpg

The Bleazey is a 'short foot' flute, so there's no redundant footjoint with the open C#/C holes. By way of size comparison, if you click on the link below you'll see the Bleazey D on the left is actually shorted than the Allan Eb (which is next to a Carl Bell Bb).
http://www.gjk2.com/flute/d_eb_bb.jpg

(I haven't embedded the images here, they're quite large, but clicking on the links will bring 'em up in your browser if you're interested!).

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:46 am

Apples to Apples.

http://www.sweetheartflute.com/
Resonance Model Keyless Flute $325.00
Resonance Model Low Whistle In D $395.00
Extra Whistle Head $235.00
Extra Flute Head $165.00

For a high D
Chris Abell. D whistle $350
Skip Healy (didn't he learn from Abell?) Piccolo (D) 6 hole - $325

My conclusion, flutes cost less.

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:00 am

IDAwHOa wrote:The one that is listed as being "developed from a Rudall & Rose 8 keyed flute dated 1837." It is quite similar to his low D in finger hole size and spacing on my first glance.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ble ... epage.html

YES, I found it on our front porch just now. The post office is soooooo stupid. We don't have a doorbell, but I don't think they even knocked. People were home and outside or in the living room ALL DAY!!!!

Hey bring that thing over. I want to toot it.

Doc

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D Flute vs. Low D Whistle

D Flute vs. Low D Whistle

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