I NEED HELP on how to tune a flute

[David Levine]

The gist of Doug's post seems to suggest that one not worry overmuch about tuning. Now, I do have a lot of respect for Doug. But having spend time with makers who spend hours final tuning an instrument, Doug's comments don't seem all that helpful. I say worry about being in tune. Worry a lot!
I can accept that there are more important things that being spot-on in tuning. But nothing is more unpleasant to me that to sit next to a flute-player who over-blows sharp. At that point I can't hear myself well enough to tell whether I am in tune.

[fluti31415]

(some parts cut, but nothing changed)

...The trick is to blow much as you would the bottom octave, but with a more defined, focused embouchure. ...
One thing to do is to blow bottom A and then switch to high a, back and forth. Do it with the B/b as well, and G/g, and so forth. This will teach you to hear how sharp you are and will help you learn to focus your embouchure better.
It also helps to pkay on a small fife or very high flute. Then you see that more blowing doesn't help you get the sound you want. ... /quote]

[quote = "Marcus T"] (again, parts cut) Another way to practise that, I think, is to practise the notes in the third octave, and to play them soft and clean with a really focused stream of air (with a tuner).

Thank you both for this advice!! All of it makes sense and is understandable and is either something I have been doing or will start implementing, starting today.

I will also start working on playing very high, quiet harmonics -- this is a tip I picked up from a classical flute player to help focus the embouchure. I don't know how to explain it, except it's like what Grey Larson recommends in his book -- finger a low D, and work on getting the second octave D, the A above that, and the D, F# and A above that -- except you go even higher, and work to just let the notes just whisper.

I have actually been using a tighter embouchure in the low register than in the high, in order to get that low D to really sing. But I'm learning the flute and developing some discrimination in my air focus, so I don't doubt that I can find another way to loosen up in the bottom register as well as continuing to develop that focus for the upper notes.

This board is the best -- I am not a fabulous player, but I can hear such good improvement in my technique, sound and style, just from reading what the experienced members say and trying it out. Thank you, David and Marcus, for taking the time to write.

[Denny]

I will also start working on playing very high, quiet harmonics -- this is a tip I picked up from a classical flute player to help focus the embouchure. I don't know how to explain it, except it's like what Grey Larson recommends in his book -- finger a low D, and work on getting the second octave D, the A above that, and the D, F# and A above that -- except you go even higher, and work to just let the notes just whisper.

harmonics or overtones... the 1st overtone is the octave, the 2nd is a 12th.

In a bit you may find that the 1st octave is harder than the 2nd!

[fluti31415]

And lastly, quoting from the classic book “Music, Sound, and Sensation” by Fritz Winckel: “Although completely pure intonation is most difficult on the flute, it is also of least importance, for the (flute) tone is poor in overtone content, and a slight distuning can have a positive equalizing effect.” In other words it may be a good thing to be slightly off-pitch. And that is my main thesis and purpose for writing the above comments about tuning. I believe that some people have unreasonable expectations about pitch and intonation. They think that their $20 electronic tuner set to equal-temperment is the gold standard and that any variation from “dead-on” pitch accuracy is not acceptable. To the contrary, my attitude with regard to flute performance is to lay perfectionism aside and accept some variations in intonation as inescapable and perhaps even a good thing.

Hi, Doug -- I think that you make a lot of sense here. The equally tempered scale is not the aesthetic that we are after when we play on our instruments, and blind slavery to an electronic tuner can, in the long run, hurt our playing. I've played orchestral settings where I was required to change the pitch of a long held note midstream because the note's relationship to the underlying harmony changed (say from 3rd to 7th). Also, I know how an unfocused tone quality (on the oboe, but I bet it is actually the same for a flute) can make the instrument sound as though it is playing sharp, when actually the fundamental is actually dead on. Many players turn their ears and minds off when they turn the tuner on, and I'm sure that noboday advocates that.

But I think that a tuner can be a very good tool, if it is used properly. A tuner can help us to develop our ear to recognize and subsequently to internalize general tendencies of our playing, such as the "second octave sharp" syndrome that's going on in this thread.

I know that you are not advocating that we throw out our tuners completely and to play without careful listening to our playing. I just wanted to emphasize that a tuner is a very useful tool when used properly and with care.

[fluti31415]

I will also start working on playing very high, quiet harmonics -- this is a tip I picked up from a classical flute player to help focus the embouchure. I don't know how to explain it, except it's like what Grey Larson recommends in his book -- finger a low D, and work on getting the second octave D, the A above that, and the D, F# and A above that -- except you go even higher, and work to just let the notes just whisper.

harmonics or overtones... the 1st overtone is the octave, the 2nd is a 12th.

In a bit you may find that the 1st octave is harder than the 2nd!

Thank you -- I can never remember if the fundamental is considered the 0th or 1st harmonic!

[Doug_Tipple]

The gist of Doug's post seems to suggest that one not worry overmuch about tuning. Having spend time with makers who spend hours final tuning an instrument, Doug's comments don't seem all that helpful. I say worry about being in tune. Worry a lot!
I can accept that there are more important things that being spot-on in tuning. But nothing is more unpleasant to me that to sit next to a flute-player who over-blows sharp. At that point I can't hear myself.[/u]

My comments about flute tuning reflect my overall attitude about perfectionism in general. Perfectionism can help you make a great flute, by spending hours doing the fine tuning, for examle. Perfectionism can also mess up your life if you require everything and everyone to be perfect in order for you to be content.

I am having to learn this hard lesson myself. The truth is that there is a lot of imperfection in the world about us. When we play with other amateur musicians, we are bound to hear much that isn't perfect. How we react to that imperfection is what is important. My goal is to be able to hear someone play something badly and still be relaxed and accepting of that person and what they have to offer.

[fluti31415]

My comments about flute tuning reflect my overall attitude about perfectionism in general. Perfectionism can help you make a great flute, by spending hours doing the fine tuning, for examle. Perfectionism can also mess up your life if you require everything and everyone to be perfect in order for you to be content.

This is especially true since "perfect" tuning is mathematically impossible even in a 7 note scale!!

[BMFW]

Perfectionism can help you make a great flute, by spending hours doing the fine tuning, for examle. Perfectionism can also mess up your life if you require everything and everyone to be perfect in order for you to be content.

I once heard the phrase "uneccessary accuracy" being used about engineering production - working to tolerances of 0.001mm when 0.01mm would suffice.

"uneccessary accuracy" in music is a bit more subjective. With regard to tuning I would have to agree with David Levine when he says "Worry..a lot". And here is my back-up anecdote.

I was standing on the pier in Helensburgh a few weeks ago on an unusually sunny Scottish Saturday, watching the World's last sea-going paddle steamer, The Waverly, pay its weekly visit to the town. The pier was crowded with locals and tourists, and 2 pipers turned up to entertain........and their tuning was shocking! Now, as popular as the pipes are in Scotland, I reckon I was probably the only other piper present on the pier and other than any other sharp-eared music lovers, probably the only one who was offended by the hideous lack of tuning. So if 200 people were entertained and only a handful of people were offended, would further tuning-up have represented "uneccessary accuracy"?

Worry, worry a lot!!!

[Cynth]

It seems to me that being able to hear whether one is in tune or not would be extremely important. As I believe David Levine pointed out, this will take a lot of pratice. As Doug pointed out, perfectionism can mess up your life---it can make you stop practicing. So for me it is good to hear that one can get better at listening, that improvement is possible. The trick is, of course, not to despise what you are doing at the present time but take pride in small improvements. I really think that this is what people who are able to difficult things well have mastered. They strive for perfection (not attainable, I realize) but they don't let imperfection discourage them unduly. They can enjoy what they are able to do while still working to be better.

[gorjuswrex]

Everyone seems to have assumed that your flute is in standard D pitch (for wooden flutes) and that you are playing with 'standard pitch' instuments e.g. not in a with 'Eb' box. Fair enough.
But of course if this is not the case there's a whole bigger problem.

All the best
Kevin

[fancypiper]

You adjust the tuning slide to tune the first octave. I recommend tuning the bottom D, blowing it to the "edge" of the octave jump.

The second octave is tuned by the placement of the cork in the head end. I suggest tuning first octave G to octave G or B to octave B, if the octave is flat, move the cork towards the blow hole, if sharp, move it away from the blow hole.

tune to the note of A (mostly recommended) or G.

I tune bottom and octave D. I'm not a flute player, but I have attempted it and I find the A to be one of the most "rubbery" notes on the flute and you need the embouchoure (SP) just right to get it in tune. G is a more "solid" note.

AP Instrument tuner for Windows can be a great help as it has a setting for just intonation tuning, rather than equal temperament like most electronic tuners.

The ear likes just intonation better than equal temperament and you can play with the pipes easier with J.I.

[cocusflute]

This is a great thread and I'm glad to see it resurrected. But this is just wrong:

You adjust the tuning slide to tune the first octave. I recommend tuning the bottom D, blowing it to the "edge" of the octave jump.

You'd never tune to the bottom D. Many flutemakers like a slightly flat D. It sounds better to them. If you tune to your bottom D the first octave will be out. And the business about tuning the second octave with the cork would lead to more problems than it would solve.
But you're absolutely right about the A (sorry Berti- I'm sure you know better now). I only tune to A if I absolutely have to. G is much more solid. If it's appropriate I'll ask the concertina player (that's the best scenario) for his G and tune to that. A wet box is another problem. We won't go there.
In any case, the tuning slide is really only good for that one note, at that particular time. Start playing and everything changes. Flute players have to listen and adapt as they go, as everything is changing in a session - especially in a session with more than four or five players.
And finally, isn't Doug Tipple a saint? Do you think a career in politics would corrupt him?

[fancypiper]

Never say never! Can a recommendation be "wrong"? Yes, for some players, no for others. Players are different beasts, just as are flutes, pipes, whistles, etc.

Many flutemakers like a slightly flat D. It sounds better to them. If you tune to your bottom D the first octave will be out.

That is done on purpose,

If you don't put the "edge" on the bottom D, you are right, bottom D is flat. Don't go for the "pure" or sine wave D with no A overtone. That is what you get if you try to play softly.

Tune to the "hard D" or blow hard with a very focused lip opening (and the lips very close to the far edge of the blow hole or learn the "pouting fish" lip opening like Kieran O'Hare and Seamus Egan use) and right against the octave jump so that you can hear the A overtone in the note. Then, it will be "in tune".

The pipes are tuned the same way, the "soft D" is flat and the "hard D" is in tune, at least with the 3 chanters I own.

My lips got sore when I had my flute (an early M&E) and it was so much harder to play than my pipes. The flute made my neck and right arm hurt too as I had to use the pipers grip to make the reach and I never could find a comfortable way to hold and balance it so that I could make a B roll.

The suggestion about the cork tuning the octave came from M&E flutes and Terry McGee and Terry makes it easy with a screw top on the head end.



You have to retune the first octave, check second octave and go back and forth until you have the best tuning in both octaves requiring the least amount of embouchoure change.

That's assuming you don't play in the third octave, of course, then more compromise and lip changes are needed.

YMMV

[Cork]

I NEED someone to tell me how to tune your flute! PLEASE help me and aS SOON AS POSSIBLE (aka ASAP)! :shock:

Of my own experience, to tune a flute, one first needs to tune one's self, such that the flute could then follow. Your embouchure simply presents your tuning to the embouchure of your flute, and tells it what to do. Mechanical adjustment, flatter or sharper, can be made by moving the tuning slide out or in, respectively, but the final tuning adjustment is uniquely yours. Therefore, tune yourself first!!

How I have done it, as a morning ritual, is to strike an A tuning fork and then treat my ears to it, one at a time.

;-)

[fancypiper]

I know that I am one of the offenders, and I have been working on this for a few months now. But in order to keep my upper octave from rising, I feel as though my embouchure changes so much from lower octave to higher that I am not able to make the switch quickly enough to play tunes. I'm pursing my lips quite a bit to get that upper octave. Any advice? Or am I just not in well enough practice yet?

How do you change octaves?

I found two ways to change, to draw my chin in slightly or jut it out slightly. If I drew my chin in, my octave blew flatter and if I jutted it out, the octave was sharper.

I could jump the octave with less jaw movement by drawing it in slightly, so I tuned my flute to the jaw tuck.

Cork, I have heard that practicing with "long tones" is a good way to get your "mouth where the pitch is" as well. You have to unlearn all the "classical" techniques if you have been classically trained.

The fluter in our band is a music major and it has taken several years to teach her to "blow loud and edgy" and to stop that pesky diaphram vibrato and learn finger vibrato. Once she learned the "huffing" style, she got a comment from the audience that she "kicked a$$ on the flute". I saw her head swell about two inches...

Wow, I didn't notice that this is a 2005 thread!