I need the help of you Brits here in the pub

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:31 am

I plan to internationally embarrass the government of Canada over the use of Agent Orange and Agent Purple on an army base here in Canada in the 1950's and 1960's.

Knowing that British Army regularly trained on this base in the 1960's & 70's, I need contact information of a Member of Parliament in England that is a firebrand in your government's face!

I also need media outlets that will investigate this story and make the UK connection and make the public aware of what is happening over here.

You can PM

Thank you.

MarkB

perrins57 · Post by **perrins57** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:48 am

These references are British media sources that may be interested in a follow up report

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4617859.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4494347.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... world.html

Below Is one British MP who might be interested

"British MP voices support
for Vietnamese Agent Orange victims

British MP Harry Cohen has tabled an Early Day Motion (EDM) in Parliament, declaring support for the online petition in support of three Vietnamese Agent Orange victims.

The EDM urges justice for Agent Orange victims. Dioxin was extensively sprayed by US troops during the American War in Vietnam. The EDM acknowledges the fact that over 500,000 people have now signed the petition and agrees with the petition's call for the US President, and chemical companies named as defendants in the civil action to accept their responsibilities for the damage caused by their actions.

"This is a really great EDM, and I am now working to get as many friends to know of this, and to get them to ask their MPs to sign the EDM," said Len Aldis, Secretary of the Britain-Vietnam Friendship Association, who set up the online petition early this year.
The online petition is at www.petitiononline.com/AOVN/."

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:04 am

perrins57 wrote:Dioxin was extensively sprayed by US troops during the American War in Vietnam.

Dioxin was a byproduct of the manufacture of agent orange. It made up a very small percent of the actual defoliant.

The military fearing that they may have a song made to embarrass them called the defoliant agent orange to make it difficult to immortalize it in song or poetry (I made that up).

Side note, wasn't the beginning of Rambo about how all of his old buddies died from agent orange?

PS just wanted to bump this thread up.

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:55 pm

I.D.10-t wrote:
perrins57 wrote:Dioxin was extensively sprayed by US troops during the American War in Vietnam.
Dioxin was a byproduct of the manufacture of agent orange. It made up a very small percent of the actual defoliant.

The military fearing that they may have a song made to embarrass them called the defoliant agent orange to make it difficult to immortalize it in song or poetry (I made that up).

Yes, you did make that up.

Part of calling it Agent Orange was the habit of the military to never call anything by its real name, but by a nickname. There is nothing sinister in this--it's just something that happens because the "real" name of everything is a mile long and contains technical language.

For instance, you don't call those tiny, folding Army can openers that were de rigeur for opening C rations by their correct title of "Device, lid removal, etc., etc., part number P3 blah, blah, blah." They're a P3 or a John Wayne. Never have I heard one called a "can opener."

The other part of calling Agent Orange was the habit of using some characteristic feature of the item as a base for the nickname. Just as you call a guy with red hair "Red," you call the stuff with a mile-long chemical name nobody can pronounce, much less remember, "Agent Orange" because . . . big revelation . . . the barrels had an orange stripe around them.

There were similar products with different-colored stripes that were known as "Agent Blue" and so forth.

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:01 am

Lambchop wrote:For instance, you don't call those tiny, folding Army can openers that were de rigeur for opening C rations by their correct title of "Device, lid removal, etc., etc., part number P3 blah, blah, blah." They're a P3 or a John Wayne. Never have I heard one called a "can opener."

P-38 is all I ever heard it called. (Best army tool ever!)

I liked the army naming in the past, for missions, it use to be randomly generated for security and general efficiency. Now we have missions that are named by the PR department like “Enduring Freedom” and “think of the children” or whatever.

By the way good luck Mark.

perrins57 · Post by **perrins57** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:19 am

Having responded to this thread, we are all probably on an FBI list of suspected terrorists now!

A girl in the UK was refused a mortgage for no reason she could comprehend. Her father, an ex-police Chief Constable, looked into it. Turns out she had stayed in a Hotel in Holland, whilst on holiday, that was a week later the victim of a small terrorist bomb attack (the bomb was small, not the terrorist!). Just because she was there a week earlier she was on a UK suspected terrorist list and refused credit! Her father had her name cleared, but how many of us know a Police Chief Constable?

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:36 am

perrins57 wrote: probably on an FBI list of suspected terrorists now!

Been on it since I was 12.

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:12 pm

perrins57 wrote:Having responded to this thread, we are all probably on an FBI list of suspected terrorists now!

A girl in the UK was refused a mortgage for no reason she could comprehend. Her father, an ex-police Chief Constable, looked into it. Turns out she had stayed in a Hotel in Holland, whilst on holiday, that was a week later the victim of a small terrorist bomb attack (the bomb was small, not the terrorist!). Just because she was there a week earlier she was on a UK suspected terrorist list and refused credit! Her father had her name cleared, but how many of us know a Police Chief Constable?

Oh, my goodness! What in the world? is a bank doing with access to a terrorism watch list?

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:15 pm

s1m0n wrote: Oh, my goodness! What in the world? is a bank doing with access to a terrorism watch list?

They bought it on the internet from the dodgy employees of a call centre in Bangalore.

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:20 pm

perrins57s little yarn struck me as apocryphal but then again you never can tell these days.
I work with a lot of east european emigrants and the hassle these poor guys get when they try to open a bank account is unreal.
Banks here are terrified of getting involved with a money laundering affair because of the laws against terrorism and as usual it is the poor and dispossessed who bear the brunt and suffer the hardship.

As my old mate Bob Dylan said "Money doesn't talk, it swears."

Slan,
D.

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:39 pm

I.D.10-t wrote:
Lambchop wrote:For instance, you don't call those tiny, folding Army can openers that were de rigeur for opening C rations by their correct title of "Device, lid removal, etc., etc., part number P3 blah, blah, blah." They're a P3 or a John Wayne. Never have I heard one called a "can opener."

P-38 is all I ever heard it called. (Best army tool ever!)
.

Ohmygawd! It IS a P-38! I left off the 8!

No wonder nobody ever knew what I wanted . . .

a P-3 is an airplane . . .

Pathetic story here . . . as a child, I could never open cans. I mean, absolutely never open cans. Try though I might, I could not work a can opener. I got all the way through college and graduate school still unable to open a can.

The P-38 was a miracle invention. For years, it was the only thing that worked for me. I still use them.

And look, there is even a bigger one--a P-51. They're even easier to use!

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:43 pm

I have a feeling that I'm walking into it here but where does the "John Wayne " bit come from..

Slan,
D.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:34 pm

Ah! Finally someone ...eh... brave enough to ask...

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:48 pm

Denny wrote:Ah! Finally someone ...eh... brave enough to ask...

Fool enough more like...I have a bad feeling about this one.

Slan,
D.

jsluder · Post by **jsluder** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:58 pm

dubhlinn wrote:
Denny wrote:Ah! Finally someone ...eh... brave enough to ask...
Fool enough more like...I have a bad feeling about this one.

Slan,
D.

From http://www.georgia-outfitters.com/page52.shtml:

It is also known by many as a "John Wayne" especially those in the Navy and Marines because he was using one in a WWII training film, so from then on marines or sailors started referring to them as a "John Wayne".

(I didn't know, either.)