What is a Protestant?

[izzarina]

Knox, Hus, Wycliffe, and others were all Presbyterian and were killed by the Roman church for heresy.

John Hus was indeed burned at the stake for heresy, but John Wycliffe (who died soon after a stroke) and John Knox (who died of old age) were not. Also, Hus and Wycliffe were condemned in the 14th century before there was even a such thing as Presbyterianism.

[izzarina]

Mormons are not considered Christian based on their belief system, therefore are not considered Protestants. I believe this is also true for Jehovah's Witnesses.

I know that Mormons would challenge this statement, and I am reasonably sure that Jehovah's Witnesses would as well.

I am curious: can you cite your source for this statement?

--James

It lies in both faith's rejection of the Trinity. Mormon's believe that Christ was a human and then became a god after his death. They do not believe in the unity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (ie: the Trinity). Jehovah's Witnesses are in essence Arian in their beliefs....the Arian heresy was condemned in 325 at the Council of Nicea. They believed that Jesus was not truly God. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was not God, but rather the Archangel Michael. It is because of these belief systems that the two religions hold that they are not considered Christian by the majority of Protestant denominations as well as the Catholic Church.

[Bloomfield]

Just found this:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm

Very informative, but also pretty slanted.

This one on Martin Luther is interesting, too, but of course written by "the other side" also:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09438b.htm

[Jack]

A "Protestant" is a Christian who's religion somehow stems (whether directly or indirectly from the Reformation where those that broke away were "protesting" the hierarchical structure of the Catholic Church. The reason why the Orthodox does not fall into this category is because their split came well before the Reformation in 1517 (they split off in 1054).

The Eastern Orthodox Church says that the Catholic Church is the one that split off in 1054. It's a rather convincing argument, I think. It has nothing to do with the definition of "Protestant," though.

Mormons are not considered Christian based on their belief system, therefore are not considered Protestants. I believe this is also true for Jehovah's Witnesses.

They both call themselves Protestant (and Christian), though, and I feel it's a matter of respect, giving them the benefit of the doubt. All my friends who are Mormon (and strangely, I have A LOT of them) call themselves Christian and believe themselves to be Christian (and Protestant) so I don't see any point in saying, "No, you are not a true Christian."

[peeplj]

Cranberry, I agree about the Mormons / Jehovah's Witnesses. Well spoken. Thank you.

As for the question about the Society of Friends, I am no expert, and should not attempt to categorize them without more specific knowledge. From what I have read I think they would be somewhere in the Centrist or possibly Liberal category.

--James

[Jack]

I took the RSOF question out because I was unsure, too.

[gonzo914]

. . . I asked what people here felt.

Did you want to hear what people really felt or did you just want someone to reaffirm your own preconceptions within the context of your own parochial experience? I would submit the latter, or you would not spout such mocking and patronizing replies as

There, there. Want a cookie?

when presented with an option that does not square with your own provincial beliefs.

In other word, lad, don't ask questions if you are not willing to politely listen to the answers you receive and at least bestow in return the illusion that you are approaching the subject with an open mind.

gonzo914, excellent quote from Bierce. I'm going to have to reread that now.

Thank you, but that is not a quote from Bierce; it is a quote from gonzo. But you should still go ahead and reread Bierce. Here's a handy link: http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/ . There is, unfortunately, no entry for "Protestant," or I would have unhesitatingly stolen it. Neither is there one for "Catholic" or "catholic." There is a one for "cynic," and very nice one for "Christian," which wouldn't do Cranberry any harm at all to read.

[Jack]

. . . I asked what people here felt.

Did you want to hear what people really felt or did you just want someone to reaffirm your own preconceptions within the context of your own parochial experience? I would submit the latter, or you would not spout such mocking and patronizing replies as

There, there. Want a cookie?

when presented with an option that does not square with your own provincial beliefs.

In other word, lad, don't ask questions if you are not willing to politely listen to the answers you receive and at least bestow in return the illusion that you are approaching the subject with an open mind.

gonzo914, excellent quote from Bierce. I'm going to have to reread that now.

Thank you, but that is not a quote from Bierce; it is a quote from gonzo. But you should still go ahead and reread Bierce. Here's a handy link: http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/ . There is, unfortunately, no entry for "Protestant," or I would have unhesitatingly stolen it. Neither is there one for "Catholic" or "catholic." There is a one for "cynic," and very nice one for "Christian," which wouldn't do Cranberry any harm at all to read.

All I asked is if you wanted a cookie. I'll take that as a "no."

[spittin_in_the_wind]

. . . I asked what people here felt.

Did you want to hear what people really felt or did you just want someone to reaffirm your own preconceptions within the context of your own parochial experience? I would submit the latter, or you would not spout such mocking and patronizing replies as

There, there. Want a cookie?

when presented with an option that does not square with your own provincial beliefs.

In other word, lad, don't ask questions if you are not willing to politely listen to the answers you receive and at least bestow in return the illusion that you are approaching the subject with an open mind.

gonzo914, excellent quote from Bierce. I'm going to have to reread that now.

Thank you, but that is not a quote from Bierce; it is a quote from gonzo. But you should still go ahead and reread Bierce. Here's a handy link: http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/ . There is, unfortunately, no entry for "Protestant," or I would have unhesitatingly stolen it. Neither is there one for "Catholic" or "catholic." There is a one for "cynic," and very nice one for "Christian," which wouldn't do Cranberry any harm at all to read.

All I asked is if you wanted a cookie. I'll take that as a "no."

[gonzo914]

All I asked is if you wanted a cookie. I'll take that as a "no."

Cranberry, I will take your proffered cookie in good spirit if you will read my Bierce.

[Chang He]

Knox, Hus, Wycliffe, and others were all Presbyterian and were killed by the Roman church for heresy.

John Hus was indeed burned at the stake for heresy, but John Wycliffe (who died soon after a stroke) and John Knox (who died of old age) were not. Also, Hus and Wycliffe were condemned in the 14th century before there was even a such thing as Presbyterianism.

Excellent call, thanks for that correction. However, all three held views which would eventually come to define Presbyterianism. Although even Presbyterianism has become divided today, with many in a more liberal vein and many in an arch-conservative one.

[Jack]

All I asked is if you wanted a cookie. I'll take that as a "no."

Cranberry, I will take your proffered cookie in good spirit if you will read my Bierce.

I've read it before. Do you like oatmeal or chocolate chip more?

[Wormdiet]

I divide the Christians up this way:

--Right-wing (Catholic, Fundamentalist-Evangelical, Holiness);

Intersting. I am a "cultural Catholic" in that I grew up in the Church and have tremendous respect for Catholicism, but have decided it ain;t for me.

From here, Catholicism looks like a very broad tent that encompasses both "right" and "left" wings. Catholics are all for social justice and civil rights in many cases. Although the liberal wing ain't in power now, it did produce "liberation theology" and the like. I see a lot more that separates fundies from RC's then unites them. Catholics are most like Anglicans that still take orders from Rome.

--Centrist or "Mainstream" Churches (I would put Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, along with others);
--Liberal or Left-wing (Universalist/Unitarianism, some Episcopalean)
--Separatist / Isolationist (broad category, includes Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, other religions who see themselves as either completely apart from society, or wanting to be)

--James

[Redwolf]

The word "Catholic," at least in theory, is easier to pinpoint than "Protestant," I think. When you say "Catholic" everybody usually knows what you're talking about. When you say "Protestant," people have all different ideas.

Martin Luther referred to his protestant church as the "true Catholic Church." Most people use "catholic" as an abbreviation of "Roman catholic."

You're going to have to look it up, I fear.

I've looked it up. Do you have an authoritive source with a clear simple accepted answer? The dictionaries I've found (online and in book form) usually have at least 2 or 3 definitions, which roughly conform to the way people use it 1) Non-Roman Catholic or 2) Tracing roots back to Luther.

Besides, I didn't ask for a standard looked-up definition. I asked what people here felt. How can I look that up other than asking?

Protestants trace their roots to the Reformation, certainly, but not necessarily to Luther. Knox, Calvin, Menno Simon, and even good old Henry VIII get their licks in there too. The Reformation wasn't made up of a single man, or even a single movement.

The simplest definition of a Protestant is a member of one of the reformed churches. The line blurs slightly when you speak of Anglicans...specifically Anglo-Catholics such as myself (in fact, Anglicanism is often referred to as a "bridge" tradition)

The reason Mormons weren't considered "Protestant" is because most Christian sects don't consider them to be Christian. While they believe in Jesus, most of their beliefs are radically different from anything any Christian sect teaches. For all the differences between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox, our understanding of who Jesus is (and, in fact, who God is and what our relationship is to him) are pretty much the same...and very different from what Mormonism teaches.

Redwolf

[Jack]

The reason Mormons weren't considered "Protestant" is because most Christian sects don't consider them to be Christian.

I don't think most Christian sects should get to decide who is really Christian, though. "Most Christian sects" could say the sky is red and it wouldn't make it so.

Mabey I'm in the minority here, but I think Christ himself will decide who is worthy of being called "Christian," not us. In the meantime it's just a matter of respect that Mormons consider themselves to be Christians--it seems overly technical to say, "No, you are not like us so you are not a real Christian."