The Great Fnatural Deathmatch

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Mon May 16, 2005 7:29 am

James - that would be a chore! The long F would make it easier, but I'd probably just be a slug and half hole the Fnats...

Since we're up to speed, who'd notice?

Eric

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:15 am

bradhurley wrote: ....
If you only could have one, the long F is the one to get -- if you get a short F only, you'll have trouble everytime you try to go from F to D or vice versa.

I've had a b*** of a time adjusting to the long F, but "The Girl That Broke My Heart" pretty much convinced me.

Put me in the long F camp ... I use the short F on like, one tune because I learned it that way. Instead, I'll generally half-hole or cross-finger, esp. at speed.

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:32 am

Cathy Wilde wrote: I've had a b*** of a time adjusting to the long F, but "The Girl That Broke My Heart" pretty much convinced me.

I *love* that tune but learned it in D. Really easy to play that way.

If it weren't for the d@mn fiddles we wouldn;t need to wory about keyed flutes.

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 am

, and amen!

In my case, it was even worse ... my hopes for a D go at it were shattered by an accordion. But you're right. It is a great tune.

(Now if I could just migrate The Moving Cloud from G to F ... but maybe by the time I'm 100!)

pandscarr · Post by **pandscarr** » Mon May 16, 2005 10:38 am

I always used to just use the short F - and found the long F really difficult. But the short F can be easily damaged, if it gets twisted it just doesn't close after use which has happened to one of my flutes.

So I've been forced to use the long F, and I really like it now - much better, much more stable and there are very very few situations when it's difficult - really only when going from the fnat to g# (aflat), and how often does that happen?

spittle · Post by **spittle** » Mon May 16, 2005 10:47 am

I opted for 4 key blocks on my last flute and will on my next flute as well (unless I'm feeling particularly indulgent), specifically deleting the short f-nat and c-nat. I didn't like the idea of the short f-nat requiring the lifting of the G-hole (is that right?), and if you've already got 1 f-nat, why bother with 2? However, I have no experience w/either, it bears mentioning :roll:

Sort-of on-topic: Does the addition of short f-nat or c-nat keys enable any tricky or cool ornaments that aren't otherwise possible on a keyless instrument? I've always wanted to be able to do a roll on c-nat and wondered if the key would help.

Cheers!
- Ryan

NicoMoreno · Post by **NicoMoreno** » Mon May 16, 2005 11:08 am

spittle wrote:I opted for 4 key blocks on my last flute and will on my next flute as well (unless I'm feeling particularly indulgent), specifically deleting the short f-nat and c-nat. I didn't like the idea of the short f-nat requiring the lifting of the G-hole (is that right?), and if you've already got 1 f-nat, why bother with 2? However, I have no experience w/either, it bears mentioning :roll:

Sort-of on-topic: Does the addition of short f-nat or c-nat keys enable any tricky or cool ornaments that aren't otherwise possible on a keyless instrument? I've always wanted to be able to do a roll on c-nat and wondered if the key would help.

Cheers!
- Ryan

short and long Fnat are essentially the same hole with different touches (although most flutes, there are two holes on either side of the flute)

This means that you play an E and then hit the key (either the long with your pinky or the short with your ring finger) No G hole involved.

Cnat key allows a cnat that is tonally more similar to the other notes. Ie brighter, more in tune, stonger etc.

I don't do ornaments with keys.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon May 16, 2005 11:41 am

There is only one ornament I sometimes do with a key. In the second octave I like to cut the "left hand" notes (B,A,G) with the C-natural key. It gives a nice almost "mechanical artifact" cut that for some reason reminds me of the pipes.

Using the F-natural key (either one) does enable you to do a kind of "crann" on the note if you wish, but usually an off-beat breath pulse will work as well and sound better too. (IMHO, if course, and varies from tune to tune...)

--James

mcdafydd · Post by **mcdafydd** » Mon May 16, 2005 4:27 pm

I still vote for a Cnat thumbhole as opposed to another long key. But I wonder why such a thing never caught on? It shouldn't be because of the flute balance which isn't primarily supported by the upper hand thumb.. what do you all think?

As far as short F vs. long F, I only have a keyed flute with the short variety... gotta make do.

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Thu May 19, 2005 3:29 am

peeplj wrote:
Jayhawk wrote:Fnat to D with a short F isn't that hard if you think of it as a slide off the Fnat key. D to Fnat is a slide onto the key.

Eric
I can do the slide off of the key on any of my flutes pretty well.

The slide onto the key, though--that I can't quite make work on any of them. Then again, my flutes have long-F keys, so I've not spent a lot of time trying.

If you really wanna impress me, play this figure from Eileen Curran at speed with only the short F:

K: Gmin

AFcFdFcF

That rocking pedal is hard enough to do *with* the long F!

--James

This is where I cheat and keep my pinkie on the long F key while I cross-finger the Cnat... Much easier all 'round! I never use the short F key.
I did have to play one tune once (it's stuck in my memory!) with a Fnat-Gsharp note change: I cross-fingered the G#, if I recall correctly. Or maybe just took a breath through one or the other... It was a while ago. (For the masochistic, it was a Niall Vallely tune from "Beyond Words"

).

Deirdre

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu May 19, 2005 6:45 am

I don't find it at all difficult to half-hole the F. On my 4-key (short f) that's what I do most of the time. I really need to work on my 6-key to make it playable. The long-F is broken; I just need to braze a little more metal onto it.

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Sat May 21, 2005 7:51 pm

Jayhawk wrote:Fnat to D with a short F isn't that hard if you think of it as a slide off the Fnat key. D to Fnat is a slide onto the key.

Then again, maybe I just have freaky fingers...

Eric

Don't listen to Eric. He likes doing things the hard way.

If you're only getting one F key it must be a long F for all the reasons mentioned above.

Doc

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat May 21, 2005 9:51 pm

bradhurley wrote:I use the short F most of the time, but as someone pointed out above, there's no way to go cleanly from D to F or F to D without the long F natural key. That's primarily what it's there for, but some people prefer to use it for every instance of F.

I know I've been super-quiet lately, but come now, people. (Hi Brad!)

I've never ever used the long F key to date. When I go from D to Fnat, I notice that I grace it with a G. So, if we let F be the short F key, I do:

XXX XXX
XXX OXX
XXX XXF

It's smooth and sounds perfectly natural. With practice, the gracing is like a little bubble.

I just had to point out that it Can Be Done. Maybe not legato, but you can definitely go from low D to short Fnat.

Stuart