Spelling of "embouchure"

[Tom O'Farrell]

I use "om-boo-schure"

[Lambchop]

Sorry to disappoint you Peggy but in Quebec the word is pronounced in essentially the same way.

I don't think Peggy was disappointed. Looks like she was merely trying to get a phonetic "household" pronunciation.

So, now I've got my dictionary out. Had to doctor up the phonetic stuff a bit (no font).

ahbushur'

Em, ah, as in embrasure.
Bou, bu, as in bouche and fou
Shur, as in pur

Roughly speaking. Sound reasonable? Yes? No?

As regards tonic accent on syllables, French is the only European language I am familiar with where every syllable is virtually evenly pronounced.

Russian does this to an emphatic degree. The compulsion to apply accents is one of the dead giveaways that you are a non-native.

[Lambchop]

I'd like to know what sounds french speaking people are unable to pronounce correctly. "th" ?

I've never really thought about it.

Focusing on what people can't do--pointing out the defects, so to speak--seems to me to get in the way of listening to the interesting things they have to say.

Sure, nearly everyone will retain the coloring of their native language when they speak another, but that's a good thing. Lends variety and color.

[Paul Thomas]

I'd like to know what sounds french speaking people are unable to pronounce correctly. "th" ?

None of my French colleagues could produce the proper vowel sounds in the word "sheet" without great concentration. The result as spoken by our francophone friends is most unfortunate. While it is mastered by some speakers, it is definitely a giveaway, as would by my pronounciation of the familiar form of "you" -- tu. The "r" also seems to fail crossing the border either direction, but perhaps especially for anglophones is more a beginner's problem.

Personally, I did my best to avoid conversations which would use the French words for "squirrel" or "reception area/welcome." Also difficult for my north american gueule to pronounce (and to find in an american store) is one of my favorite wines, brouilly.
Globish, anyone?

[Nanohedron]

Also difficult for my north american gueule to pronounce (and to find in an american store) is one of my favorite wines, brouilly.

"Bruh-willie". What's so difficult?

[Paul Thomas]

"Bruh-willie".

Could we be confusing it with that rare Scots vintage, "Brae-Willie?"

What's so difficult? :D

Perhaps you've never drunk Scots wine. Peat: good for preserving ancient corpses & whisky lovers, not so good with grapes.

(Pax, all you Scots oenologists. I get to say that, thanks to a token dram of scottish genetics, and a genetic association with the wine industry)

How do you say embouchure in Scots? (There's a cheap joke in there, but I'm not jumping. I've used my quota for today on another thread.)

[Nanohedron]

Great site, Paul! "Embouchure" apparently has no cognate in Scots, according to the translator function. Maybe on a bad day, "ma f***kin lips"?

[Matt_Paris]

Also difficult for my north american gueule to pronounce (and to find in an american store) is one of my favorite wines, brouilly.

Sad country where it's hard to find a good Brouilly. Must have other good sides...

Another unpronounceable one is "Pouilly Fuissé" if you like white Bourgognes...

Focusing on what people can't do--pointing out the defects, so to speak--seems to me to get in the way of listening to the interesting things they have to say.

Very true... But that can be helpful to tell them what is wrong

[phcook]

I think the most difficult wine name for English (to be pronounced, not to be drunk) is Flagey-Echezeaux.

But if someone can host a mp3 file with a French version of "embouchure", I can post it.

Best

[s1m0n]

English, with its Germanic base and vocabulary from the Norman Conquest, has words coming from two very different sources. So the patterns don't match up.

Like the other germanic languages, English also went through the great vowel shift and at least three systems each of denoting verb tense and noun number, all of which have left relics & confusion behind.

All, however, were completely logical and systematic at the time of their creation; it's just that the system is no longer a productive one* and so we've forgotten the pattern.

~~

*Except in some cases, like the brief craze among geeks for creating a plural boxen using the defunct anglo-saxon ~en plural (children, oxen, chicken, kine) to indicate more than one "box" (computer CPU case). That seems to be becoming passe, sadly. To grammar geeks like me it's a pity. I thought it was cool that a 500 year dead gramatic structure was coming to new life.

[s1m0n]

Matt---
What syllable is the stress on in French?

French isn't a stress-timed language like english or german. Linguistically, it's syllable-timed, so stress is much less significant and less pronounced in french. It's much more even. Germanic languages like english in contrast have much heavier stress alternation.

This, incidentally, is why french begets very unconvincing rock and roll; the iambic backbeat isn't present in the words, the way it is in english or german.

Trouble with stress is the easiest way to bust non-native speakers of either language. Native french speakers learning english have the opposite difficulty.

~~

The secret to convincingly faking french pronounciation is to learn to speak it with your lips rather than (as english does) the tongue.

[AaronMalcomb]

I had the unique experience of being an anglophone attending a high school English class in France.

"TH" and dipthongs were very difficult for my classmates. Also making glottals between words, especially when the subsequent word begins with a vowel, posed problems too. Then of course there is the letter "h" which is silent in French.

Almost a month into the trimester I hadn't been called on much in class. One day the professeur started scolding me for not taking notes while she lectured. She didn't know I was American and spoke English. After that I was the star student. Though I didn't do too well on one grammar exam. I had never heard of some those terms like "modals."

Cheers,
Aaron

[Paul Thomas]

Also difficult for my north american gueule to pronounce (and to find in an american store) is one of my favorite wines, brouilly.

Sad country where it's hard to find a good Brouilly. Must have other good sides...

...I'm still looking, but it was hard to return here after living where one could find an entire tomme de savoie for < 4 Euros.

Another unpronounceable one is "Pouilly Fuissé" if you like white Bourgognes...

Strangely, I find that much easier to pronounce (and to find) - the French "r" followed quickly by "ouilly" is a satanic coupling. I think it's time to open an OT wine/cheese thread in the Poststructural Pub...

This, incidentally, is why french begets very unconvincing rock and roll; the iambic backbeat isn't present in the words, the way it is in english or german.

I agree that while the stress patterns in French create some really unique branches of north-African-inspired Rap, they make for akward prosody WRT rock and roll--but German?? In the Sartrian hell to which I'll likely be condemned, the only two radio stations (with no Off or Volume buttons) will be Johnny Hallyday and Ramstein


[edit to correct spelling]

[Matt_Paris]

In the Sartrian hell to which I'll likely be condemned, the only two radio stations (with no Off or Volume buttons) will be Johnny Hallyday and Ramstein


[edit to correct spelling]

My god !!! That's horrible !!!
You can add a third one with Michael Flatley's last creations.

[s1m0n]

I agree that while the stress patterns in French create some really unique branches of north-African-inspired Rap, they make for akward prosody WRT rock and roll--but German?? In the Sartrian hell to which I'll likely be condemned, the only two radio stations (with no Off or Volume buttons) will be Johnny Hallyday and Ramstein

Ramstein's suckage is unrelated to the metrics of their language.