Non-Liturgical Instrument?

[Jim McGuire]

Checking with the Pastor is a possibly unnecessary step as the priest performing the marriage can decide for himself. Pastors do determine local policy, though, and it may be necessary to clear it with him.

If you were to play a recesssional that had not been cleared (my skip-the-asking-for-permission recommendation), you might get an Almighty stare from the priest later on but that's about it. As long as the music is relatively benign and fitting, you and he will get over it.

Highland pipes have been relegated to the nave of the church *mostly* as clearly not having liturgical roots or even those pretensions.

If asked, tell the priest that you'll be playing music that has often been part of liturgies in Ireland and that you believe it to be very appropriate for this ceremony.

[PJ]

I got married in a registry office in Ireland. My wife and I were told that we could have music, but we were asked to keep it secular!!

[marcpipes]

During the "Great Blackout" two summers ago, I played uilleann pipes for the Aug. 15 Holy Day masses in my parish. There was no piano in the church, and the organ wasn't going anywhere without electricity. The priest was from the Phillipines and was glad enough to have music. After the mass, he thanked me and said he had read that bagpipes are
included in a list of liturgic instruments, but he had never understood how they would be used until now.
Later that summer, I played the dedication of a new church and Cardinal Maida of Detroit was the celebrant. He thanked me and told me what a nice touch the pipes were for the mass. I half joked and said, "A couple of priests in the area would beg to differ, as they won't let me play in their churches." He said I have permission to play in any church as long as he's Cardinal and if any priest gives me trouble, have them call him. Usually, it takes a fair bit of graft to get that kind of dispensation.
It seems the main problem your having is with a specific priest. If you gently remind him that the vatican has no problem with you, he may relent his self declared infalability. Just don't play "The Sash" at mass.
Marc

[PJ]

[Antaine]

My Neice asked me to play a reccesional tune on the pipes inside the church....No can do.... as per Catholic rule --No Non liturgical instruments in the church....any help here????..Don't bash the Church just give me guidance and information. Stay focused! Bite yer tongues and be positive ....Not interested in flames. Pagans need not respond.

I've played in Catholic churches exclusively, weddings, funerals, Christmas and memorials. There is a general prohibition on "non-liturgical music" but there's no such thing as a "non-liturgical instrument." There is no mention of such a thing in the recently released GIRM (General Instruction of the New Roman Missal) that I have in my hand. An instrument may not be used every sunday, but play a hymn on it and it is a "liturgical instrument" (whatever that means)

I have found that many churches shy away from allowing bagpipes in the building - a number outright prohibit it. However, this is usually because their sole experience with bagpipes are GHB during weddings and funerals. I have never met a music director that has even heard of the UP and have had to audition them in the church each time to prove that they are acceptable for indoor use, won't blast the congregation out of their seats etc. I've never had a problem after doing that. Even vocal or written explanations with pictures don't seem to get it through to people that this is unlike their only frame of reference. They typically need to hear it for themselves...

my guess is they heard the word bagpipes, thought of GHB and came up with a reason they thought you couldn't argue with to say no.

[Antaine]

The priest was from the Phillipines and was glad enough to have music.

my priest is from the Philippines and he *LOVES* the UP now...said he's never seen anything like them...he's actually quite the character, but that's another story...

[Mypipes]

Thanks for the input ...my piping rebuff came second hand from the church secretary to the bride....I should have done it face to face with the priest ....I may still do this and press the issue after all " I buriied my Wife and Dance on her Grave" would sound great with church reverbbb
Actually was going to play March of the King of Loais under a new title "The King Has Risen"

[magroibin]

Actually was going to play March of the King of Loais under a new title "The King Has Risen"

You little devil!

[fel bautista]

Hey, I'm filipino and I'm taken (abducted???) by the pipes as well. Is there a genetic thing going on??? .

I played a piece at an aniversary Mass for our parish priest. The priest that gave the homily plays whistle so he gave the congregation a tour of my pipes. I "auditioned" the pipes for our music director. She's a keyboard person and hadnever seen one either. Quite the treat. He even did the "scots took them seriously"joke as well. Both are Irish so I had an in.

[L42B]

Orriginaly Posted By Mypipes
My Neice asked me to play a reccesional tune on the pipes inside the church....No can do.... as per Catholic rule --No Non liturgical instruments in the church....any help here????..Don't bash the Church just give me guidance and information. Stay focused! Bite yer tongues and be positive ....Not interested in flames. Pagans need not respond.

I've been asked a few times to play the Uilleann Pipes at my Uniting Church. If your uncertain talk to the local preist (or minister). There have been some references in the past in books of the pipes being played in church in both the Republic and N. Ireland (Catholic and Prodistant). When choosing a tune to play in church, I stear away from many of the traditional tunes. Some of them are not sutable for Church.

If in dought look in your churches hymn book. There's bound to be some tunes in their that'd work on the pipes. Most of them are in Bb (that's going from the Methodist book mind you). I played the Blarney Pilgram one time and had no problem with the tune in the upper ocatave (with organ and piano).

Does your church allow hymns by Michael Cards? "Jesus Lover of My Sole" is a tune that works on the Uilleann Pipes. have a listen to some of his albums (particularly Starkindler) as they do include the pipes.

Best of luck,

Cheers L42B

[Marcelo Muttis]

All you got to answer is "yes... but the bible says that", and here come some verses for example Psalm 149 and 150 includes all kind of instruments of that epoque and King David was the first luthier mentioned in the bible, also it says "let everithing that has breathe praise the lord"(it doesn´t say bellows or mouth breathe)
Everithing must be compared with the bible and dont let those death religious pharisees aut your oportunity to praise

[Aaron]

My suggestion to you would be to find out who denied the request and, with kindness and gentleness, go over their head. If the choirmaster made the declaration, talk to the priest. If the priest, write a letter to the bishop. You can get the bishop's contact information from the church secretary.

Speaking as an Episcopalian to a Roman Catholic, I can't promise this is true, but it's possible that someone has misunderstood their boss's instructions. It is the standard in the Episcopal Church (though it's not always followed) that wedding music must be sacred in nature. Thus, the Wedding March is out. However, it's possible that a priest or a music minister has garbled that requirement and outlawed instruments that they think are "non-liturgical." If I'm wrong, there's not much to do. However, there's good reason to question whether this is a valid "rule," and if the priest is acting like a prelate, ask the bishop for permission; the priest is required to submit to his bishop's authority.

Also, just FYI, every "liturgical" instrument becomes "liturgical" by usage in the Church. The pipe organ was once seen as bombastic and inappropriate for Church use, too.

[Chris Bayley]

As one of the music leaders at my local Catholic Church I can definitely say that there is nothing non-liturgical about them and use them at the Mass. Other instruments used include Guitars, Violin, Viola, trumpets, cornet, bassoon, clarinet, electric piano, bodhran as well as the traditional organ. What instruments were around at the time of Christ - certainly not guitars, boehm flutes, electric piano etc. yet they are all acceptable. If the objection is on the grounds that it is a bagpipe point out that they are not like the more familiar GHB and have a soft sound.

One type of bagpipe was invented by a Canon of the church specifically for the playing of divine music - the "Phagotum" and a reconstruction is being made at West Dean College, Sussex UK

http://www.dulcians.org/WestDean/wd_2002.htm#phagotum
http://www.bagpipeworld.co.uk/Reconstru ... agotum.htm

The West Dean site shows several instruments at the construction stage

Chris
________________________________________
Psalm 97

Sing psalms to the Lord with the harp, with the sound of music, with trumpets and the sound of the horn

Psalm 32

Give thanks to the Lord upon the harp, with a ten stringed lute sing him songs

[Mypipes]

The Pipes will be permitted in the church as per my talk with the priest this day. So as it turns out the initial prohibition was born of a knee jerk reaction to ban the unfamiliar. Now all I have to do is play the pipes in front of a..a,,,,,a.....ahh kazzillion people...my God what was I thinking ....I should of left well enough alone!!!

[Hip O'Potamus]

Is this an example of "Be careful what you wish for?"