I've seen ornette coleman tonight!!

kevin m. · Post by **kevin m.** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:12 pm

O.K.,Maybe this is the wrong website entirely for this posting-though I'm sure that there are a few 'Jazz' fans here,but I have to tell you all that I saw the great Ornette Coleman tonight playing a rare U.K. gig at the 'Sage',Gateshead!
It's twenty four years since I last saw the great Alto Saxist/composer,and of course he has aged somewhat (this was a celebration of his 75th birthday),but Ornette still plays with a creative fire.
Tonight he was accompanied by double bassists Greg Cohen and Tony Falanga,and his son Denardo on drums.
Ornette played Alto Sax.,and to my delight- Trumpet and Violin(he 'taught' himself to play these two instruments during a two year hiatus in the early 60's).
The bass work,especially Tony Falanga's Arco,took me back to the great albums recorded with the bass virtuoso David Izenson at the 'Golden circle' club,Stockholm in 1965.
I've always felt that Ornette's music had a certain affinity with the double bass (think of Charlie Haden's great contributions).
Ornette played with his typical vocalised, 'Bluesy' tone-his sound is unmistakeable and really beautiful,esp. on his ballad pieces.
His phrases,sometimes oblique,have a timeless 'folksy' quality that are instantly identifiable.
Needless to say,I found this concert to be hugely entertaining and enlightening.
I'm sure that I must hold the record on this site for using the word 'Jazz'

The inverted commas that I use in association with the word are entirely deliberate-I don't like the word,as it is semantically confining-I hate how people try to segregate and 'pigeonhole' musical and artistic styles.

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:25 pm

I'm jealous. I love Coleman. And I love jazz.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:16 am

Lucky you Kevin. I've been a fan since the 60s but I've never managed to see him live. It's one of my big regrets, along with never seeing Mingus live. I got to see Monk, Basie, Ellington, Roland Kirk and Muddy Waters live but never Coleman. I'm glad to hear he's returned to his 60s style which I much prefer to his 70s and 80s playing. A wonderful musician.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:18 am

I only heard a bit of Coleman in the early '60s, but I still have a copy of Shape of Jazz to Come (With Don Cherry, Charlie Haden, and Billy Higgins) buried away amongst my LPs, and maybe Change of the Century, too, though I haven't seen them in years.

I've always imagined that "Focus on Sanity" might be the soundtrack to Picasso's "Guernica" (Hard to see this from the brief bit on Amazon, though.)

Post by **Dale** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:29 am

Thanks for letting us know about seeing Ornette Coleman. Sounds exciting. I've interested in jazz but have never really listened to much of his work. Can you recommend a definitive recording?

Dale

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:52 am

All his early Atlantics are excellent. There's a box set but if that is too much then Change of the Century or Shape of Jazz to Come would be the best places to start. Perhaps Change is best, but it's a hard call.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:02 pm

It's been said of Coleman that he pushed the limits of jazz much as the Dada movement pushed the limits of art in general. Not much of anywhere else to go from there.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:07 pm

I thought he was one of those dead jazz greats. Huh... Glad he's still kickin' it!

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:18 pm

Coleman Hawkins is dead and Ornette Coleman is alive. Two great sax Colemans.

kevin m. · Post by **kevin m.** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:53 pm

In reply to Wombat,I have to say that I'm pleased to see Ornette playing acoustically again-this is the FOURTH time that I've seen him-admidedly,the last time was 24 years ago (man I feel old!),that 'Primetime' electric band just didn't do it for me.
I would have loved to have seen Monk and Mingus-they were both genius bandleaders/composers-you could make a career out of playing either of their works.
I re-iterate that the word 'Jazz' is probably the music's greatest enemy-how many times have you heard people saying"I hate Jazz."?
Truth is,they haven't heard the real stuff-I think that it has been the greatest intellectual emancipator of my life,and has given me a wider and greater understanding of ALL Arts-ITM included.
Typing that last line reminded me- in the late 70's,when I was around twenty years old,I went to the local Arts centre,and suggested that they have a music workshop-I was playing Sax at the time,and was in favour of starting a local 'musicians collective'.
The guy 'in charge' of their music ,ahem,'policy' said that "I can't imagine this stuff going down with people from ....... estate."
That was the council (blue collar) estate where I'd been brought up and still lived!!!
So much for the 'Radical' 70's!!
I did however meet many musicians then-inc Evan Parker,Lol Coxhill,Toshinori Kondo,Paul Lovens,Dudu Pukwana,Johnny Dyani,John Surman, etc,etc.
Blimey.

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:57 pm

Very cool. Now I'll have to dig out one of my compiliation CD's with OC on it.

Paul Thomas · Post by **Paul Thomas** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:48 am

Wombat wrote:All his early Atlantics are excellent. There's a box set but if that is too much then Change of the Century or Shape of Jazz to Come would be the best places to start. Perhaps Change is best, but it's a hard call.

I'd suggest "The Shape of Jazz to Come"

Speaking as a sax player, when you listen to his deceptively simple tunes "Lonely Woman" and "Turnaround" I think it becomes clear that classifying him as merely experimental would miss much of his contribution (I'm suspiscious of that word, experimental, applied to modern music/art - there was a modern composer who said "My compositions are not experiments - that's what I do before I compose" or something to that effect. Or at least someone should have said it).

Dale if you like that then try an album called "Playing" from a group called "Old and New Dreams".

Paul

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:12 am

kevin m. wrote:In reply to Wombat,I have to say that I'm pleased to see Ornette playing acoustically again-this is the FOURTH time that I've seen him-admidedly,the last time was 24 years ago (man I feel old!),that 'Primetime' electric band just didn't do it for me.
I would have loved to have seen Monk and Mingus-they were both genius bandleaders/composers-you could make a career out of playing either of their works.

Monk was disappointing when I heard him in the early 70s, either past it or having a very bad night. I'd have put it down to a bad piano or bad accoustics expect that Jacki Byard—another great pinaist—was coaxing great sounds from the piano and, having played that venue several times myself, I'd say it has accoustics as good as any large hall I've played in anywhere. Still, I cherish the memory.

kevin m. wrote:Typing that last line reminded me- in the late 70's,when I was around twenty years old,I went to the local Arts centre,and suggested that they have a music workshop-I was playing Sax at the time,and was in favour of starting a local 'musicians collective'.
The guy 'in charge' of their music ,ahem,'policy' said that "I can't imagine this stuff going down with people from ....... estate."
That was the council (blue collar) estate where I'd been brought up and still lived!!!
So much for the 'Radical' 70's!!

How I hate that snobbery. Did that guy have any idea where the music came from and how many people from economically modest backgrounds played, and still do play it?

Having lived in Britain a while I sympathise. My sax teacher in Melbourne when I was a lad lived and taught in a working class suburb. Not only did he teach jazz, and just about everything else, in his youth he'd briefly been able to maintain a symphony orchestra drawn from musicians who lived in or near that very suburb. When I'm in Melbourne I stay with friends who live in that area.

kevin m. wrote: I did however meet many musicians then-inc Evan Parker,Lol Coxhill,Toshinori Kondo,Paul Lovens,Dudu Pukwana,Johnny Dyani,John Surman, etc,etc.
Blimey.

Wow, what a lineup. Some of those guys are amongst my favourite musicians. Unfortunately, when I lived in Britain I had a doctorate to finish so my active musical exploits were minimal. I did get to play with some of the better jazz rockers from time to time but I didn't even bring my saxes or my best guitar with me and had to borrow instruments.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:50 pm

FJohnSharp wrote:Two great sax Colemans.

Wadn't they a German duchy of some kind? Mebbe needs a hyphen? I think there were some Goths involved, too.

Yeah. I'm sure that's it; Sax-Colemans and the Goths.

I knew all that World History in the 9th grade would do me some good.