Flutes that give back what you put into them

[Danner]

When anyone asks the old "Which flute should I get?" question, all the old locals ask volume, price range, material, experience, hand stretch, etc. type of questions. It seems that rmost people do not really consider that some flutes grow with you as you mature as a player. I'm not really experienced, but I feel that some instruments give back what you put into them and some do not. Some of them I can play for a few months, and then it seems like my progress is almost at a standstill because the instrument physically cannot play more responsively, louder, softer, or whatever. On other instruments, it seems like just when you think you've pushed it as far as it can go, you find that you can still do better with it.

Getting an instrument that I can keep on pushing to new levels would the most important thing to me if I were going to buy a new one. Does anybody else know what I'm talking about?

[peeplj]

Getting an instrument that I can keep on pushing to new levels would the most important thing to me if I were going to buy a new one. Does anybody else know what I'm talking about?

Yes I do, and I agree.

There has been discussion before on the boards about whether or not the easiest-to-play flute is in fact the best flute.

I believe I hold a minority opinion, but I believe that there are some extremely good flutes that only yield their best to you as the player when you have put in the time and done the homework.

Not every extremely good flute is hard to play at first; however, if you are satisfied with the first clear tones you get, what drives you to always push further and harder?

I feel I am a better player on the Hamilton--a fine flute that is very easy to play--because I got my chops ready on the Seery first, which is IMHO a much harder flute to fill and play well.

--James

[AaronMalcomb]

I think that should be a defining characteristic of a good flute.

I had a Dixon 3-piece polymer. In a few months I had maxed out what I could do with it. I kept playing it and nothing more happened.

My bamboo Olwell keeps getting better as I do. At first I could honk on it and get a lot of big sound. I can still do that almost without thought but I can get more colours and harmonics if I try and they come more easily as time goes by. Now I am able get some really sweet, gentle tone as well as a hard, reedy tone too. It takes concentration but I can do it whereas I couldn't before.

Cheers,
Aaron

[Doc Jones]

I think that should be a defining characteristic of a good flute.

I had a Dixon 3-piece polymer. In a few months I had maxed out what I could do with it. I kept playing it and nothing more happened.

My bamboo Olwell keeps getting better as I do. At first I could honk on it and get a lot of big sound. I can still do that almost without thought but I can get more colours and harmonics if I try and they come more easily as time goes by. Now I am able get some really sweet, gentle tone as well as a hard, reedy tone too. It takes concentration but I can do it whereas I couldn't before.

Cheers,
Aaron

The scientific way to approach this would be for you to get your Dixon back now and see what it could do. Though I suspect your opinion may stay the same. Those Olwell bamboos are amazing.

Doc

[andrewK]

Surely the flute is changing little, and the player is growing.
If the flute were passed to another beginner he might say just the same thing.

[I.D.10-t]

I think that should be a defining characteristic of a good flute.

I had a Dixon 3-piece polymer. In a few months I had maxed out what I could do with it. I kept playing it and nothing more happened.

My bamboo Olwell keeps getting better as I do. At first I could honk on it and get a lot of big sound. I can still do that almost without thought but I can get more colours and harmonics if I try and they come more easily as time goes by. Now I am able get some really sweet, gentle tone as well as a hard, reedy tone too. It takes concentration but I can do it whereas I couldn't before.

Cheers,
Aaron

The scientific way to approach this would be for you to get your Dixon back now and see what it could do. Though I suspect your opinion may stay the same. Those Olwell bamboos are amazing.

Doc

Or pass the flute off to someone you think is better than yourself and see if they can do things on it that you cannot.

[AaronMalcomb]

You are very right, Andrew. I think it's a question of whether or not the design of the flute is such that the player can get more out of it as they get better acquainted with the flute.

Cheers,
Aaron

[I.D.10-t]

Okay, hear is the thing with me, I have two different instruments I like to play that are the exact opposite. One has a rectangular embrochure and the other has a round one. One plays “in tune” the other plays “in period”(not really). One is more forgiving, one is more flexible.

I get different things from both and I cannot say I learn more from one than another, just different things. I still learn a lot from both. Maybe some one that is more accomplished then me can tell me why this is wrong.

PS, I thought that this was a Guinness thread.

[alespa]

Hey everyone, I'm currently in line waiting for my first flute, an Olwell G bamboo that Kara said should be with me in a "few weeks"! I've been a whistler and hope to continue with that. I have seen a few FS threads where someone says "the flute got a hold of me and won't let go". But I look forward to a harmonious relationship with both instruments

My question is this. Does anyone find it helps them to grow, in terms of flexibility, by working on flute and whistle, or do they work against each other? This may be a dumb question in light of pros like Brian Finnegan and Michael McGoldrick, who play whistle and flute.

Any thoughts?

Matt

[Lambchop]

Getting an instrument that I can keep on pushing to new levels would the most important thing to me if I were going to buy a new one. Does anybody else know what I'm talking about?

Yes.

My question is this. Does anyone find it helps them to grow, in terms of flexibility, by working on flute and whistle,

It helps me.

[Jennie]

My question is this. Does anyone find it helps them to grow, in terms of flexibility, by working on flute and whistle, or do they work against each other?
Matt

Now I know what they meant when they said about the whistle, "What's the big deal, it's just six holes." Meaning that whistle is way easier to play.

I am far from the great expert on this. But I can see it evolving already. The flute is my challenge. Because it will be harder to play, for a long time I'm sure, it will be my call to perfecting technique and to refining expression _within the confines of my ability_ as I develop as a player. It makes me slow down, think harder, be more attuned to the music in its intricate details.

Whistle will be my instrument to fly with. I'll take the same tunes that I've lived with so intimately on flute (because I'm not nimble and skilled enough yet) and go off into the ether with the whistle when I pick it up to play at sessions or just to get that lead-finger feeling shaken out.

I'll get better on whistle as I go, but won't use it to practice as much.

Analogy: learning a new language. I don't have to practice my French much, because I'm already fluent. But it sure gives me insight into French when I start working on Russian or German. Makes me more awake, more aware to the nuances in all of those languages.

I'm psyched.
Jennie

[andrewK]

I take your point Aaron, about a player learning what the new flute will do,but I hear more of the opposite.
A decent player finding what the limitations of the flute are over a period and going off it.
As in my second hand reference to what Brian Finnegan told me of loving a Doyle flute at first then finding it lacked depth as he got to know it to the point where he had to sell it.
I got into trouble from David Levine for mentioning it last time. I hope I can get away with it this time.

A good player seems to be able to play what he is handed.

[chas]

Not every extremely good flute is hard to play at first; however, if you are satisfied with the first clear tones you get, what drives you to always push further and harder?

I feel I am a better player on the Hamilton--a fine flute that is very easy to play--because I got my chops ready on the Seery first, which is IMHO a much harder flute to fill and play well.

Very good points. There is an on the other hand part to the first. I cut my teeth on a Bleazey (small-holed) Rudall-style flute. I got enough out of it initially that I stuck with it. I had started on another flute that was more difficult to play, but put it down because, well, it was too hard (for me) to play. So a flute must at least give the beginner something with which to work.

I'm loving the Hammy, but finding it kind of a beast, which alludes to your point about cutting your teeth on the Seery. I think I'll always find small-holed flutes easier, which could be one of two things. Either it's because I began on a small-holed flute, or I began on a small-holed flute because it's more natural for me.

[peeplj]

A decent player finding what the limitations of the flute are over a period and going off it.
As in my second hand reference to what Brian Finnegan told me of loving a Doyle flute at first then finding it lacked depth as he got to know it to the point where he had to sell it.

A good player seems to be able to play what he is handed.

Andrew, good post. I think you are exactly right.

--James

[Cathy Wilde]

My first flute was some kind of wood. My second flute was some kind of dark wood with four keys, because those seemed handy. My third flute was a cocus Pratten with 6 keys and an ability to be quite loud (because I deemed flute #2 too soft -- or so I thought then) and it was on this flute that I started to really work. My fourth flute is a keyless Rudallesque blackwood, which'll probably always stay with me because every time I play it it's a revelation. And my present working flute (#5 if you're still awake and counting) is a 6-key African-blackwood partially-lined-head long-footed squarish-embouchured big-bored Pratten that can be very loud but also capable of being: soft, dark, light, big, little, ballsy, wispy, high, low, sharp, flat, round, edgy, yada yada yada.

In other words .... let's not forget that we can also grow and change in our own playing, as can our wants and needs as we refine our skills. We might be influenced by new/old styles, new input via a workshop or clinic or session or lessons with a new teacher, opportunities to play with a new group/level, etc. .... or even by a CD we've absolutely fallen in love with (thanks again, Brad! ).

But mostly, of course, there's just logging a lot of playing and listening miles. That'll change you the most, I think.

So for me, I've found that what I want out of a flute has changed over time, too. Where once I just wanted a wooden flute and then a loud wooden flute with keys, now I prefer a flute with the range, tonal character, and responsiveness necessary for it to evolve as I do.

And since I don't know where I'm going in my playing, here's what I do to establish a basic outline on a flute I'm trying: I'll play it as loud as I can. I'll play it as soft as I can. I'll play it with as loose an embouchure as I can. I'll play it bearing down as much as I can. I'll play it lyrically. I'll play it "huffily." I'll see how flat I can blow it, and how sharp. I'll see how hard I can push the tone before it breaks, because I figure only by exploring the outer edges will you know how big a flute's "playing field" is.

IMO, that's one of the reasons the top makers' flutes are so great -- lots of latitude. i.e., If you can't (with sufficient effort, of course), get your Olwell or Grinter or Wilkes to sound like pretty much anything you want it to (other than, say, a Murray or Hammy -- to me those are the two I presently know as having truly distinctive tones and characters), well .... it's pretty tough to blame the flute.

But regardless, a lot of great players become great players on instruments best fit for the rubbish bin -- and sometimes they become great BECAUSE of what they have to work around. (the training with ankle weights metaphor) So once again, I think it's a case of finding the flute with the best depth and range and most heart you can (and of course, can afford), and then .... just play the bejeesus out of it. From there, either you'll get through whatever walls you hit with it or, you'll eventually send it on to someone who thinks it'll suit them.

At least you'll know more about what you like thru the process.

Incidentally, I've been playing for about 10 years, the last three of them pretty seriously .... and am only just now plumbing the amazing depth of difference between flute and whistle playing.

Dang. I'm gonna be at this forever.

(If I'm lucky, that is.)