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jim stone
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Post by jim stone »

Peggy wrote:He's not asking them to break the law, but not to cooperate with it, so to speak.

As an example, let's say you are a civil official who grants marriage licenses or marries people in civil services . . . you'd have to quit your job to avoid giving a gay couple a license or marrying them, regardless of what faith they were.

I'm still pondering the whole concept behind this, though. Seems a little extreme to me. It's one thing to say that Catholic homosexuals shouldn't get married, but something else again to apply this universally.

Ratzinger has always been rather grimly and unpleasantly rigid in his conservatism. I wonder what's next on his agenda. Probably nothing pleasant.
No, you wouldn't have to quit your job;
could refuse to give them a license and be fired.
I suppose that would be breaking the law.

Here it is extremely likely that Ratzinger is
doing what John Paul II would have done.
I don't think it's him personally, or,
really anybody personally--but a deeply
held religious and social belief, one
they feel is even warranted on
entirely secular grounds.
Also one they've thought through.
I don't agree with them, but I don't
think it's a matter of rigidity.
One of the grounds for their opposition
to the law, by the way, is that it violates the UN
charter concerning the rights of
children.

If one really considers the gay marriage
issue in depth, and investigates the
arguments against it...especially
in Europe, where it's already in place,
and there seems to be a good deal of
sociological research about
gay marriages (but I haven't followed it into
the journals; only seen synopses and
citations), well, it gets pretty interesting.
IRTradRU?
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Post by IRTradRU? »

Gee, imagine that - the Pope telling Catholics to adhere to Church teachings.

:roll:
IRTradRU?
Cayden

Post by Cayden »

What was he telling Catholics <a href="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internat ... l">here</a> ? Claiming the church's jurisdiction over state law to keep the dirty laundry in. Nothing new indeed.
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s1m0n
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Post by s1m0n »

Peter Laban wrote:What was he telling Catholics <a href="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internat ... l">here</a>
He was telling them they are above the law.
And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')

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GaryKelly
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Post by GaryKelly »

IRTradRU? wrote:Gee, imagine that - the Pope telling Catholics to adhere to Church teachings.

:roll:
No no, the Church should change all its teachings according to what people want. I mean, it's not like the 10 Commandments were written in stone or anything.
Image "It might be a bit better to tune to one of my fiddle's open strings, like A, rather than asking me for an F#." - Martin Milner
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StewySmoot
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Post by StewySmoot »

GaryKelly wrote:
IRTradRU? wrote:Gee, imagine that - the Pope telling Catholics to adhere to Church teachings.

:roll:
No no, the Church should change all its teachings according to what people want. I mean, it's not like the 10 Commandments were written in stone or anything.
So to be a Catholic you need to follow the Catholic Church?
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I.D.10-t
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Post by I.D.10-t »

It seems that the question becomes how many different laws should a person be subject to? And should those people be be held accountable to the groups that they decide to associate with. I knew some “Straight edge” people that if they broke the rules would be punished. It seems that the church has the opposite deal. They will protect their own at all costs.

In the US we are trying to figure out weather a pharmacist can refuse to sell birth control pills if they are opposed to it. I have known of pharmacists that refuse to prescribe medicine to people because of other reasons (health related). When is discretion wrong?

Some of these pharmacists give referrals, seems like others could do the same.

My usual disclaimer, I am not that great of a writer, please try to understand my point and attack that, rather than some kind of minor word usage.
"Be not deceived by the sweet words of proverbial philosophy. Sugar of lead is a poison."
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GaryKelly
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Post by GaryKelly »

StewySmoot wrote: So to be a Catholic you need to follow the Catholic Church?
Well....yeah. :-?
Image "It might be a bit better to tune to one of my fiddle's open strings, like A, rather than asking me for an F#." - Martin Milner
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StewySmoot
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Post by StewySmoot »

GaryKelly wrote:
StewySmoot wrote: So to be a Catholic you need to follow the Catholic Church?
Well....yeah. :-?
merely honing in on the obvious.

Smoot
Lay Catholic
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Wombat
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Post by Wombat »

StewySmoot wrote:
GaryKelly wrote:
StewySmoot wrote: So to be a Catholic you need to follow the Catholic Church?
Well....yeah. :-?
merely honing in on the obvious.

Smoot
Lay Catholic
Not quite as obvious as some would have us believe. To be a good Catholic you need to follow the Catholic Church. :D
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Lorenzo
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Post by Lorenzo »

Peter Laban wrote:What was he telling Catholics <a href="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internat ... l">here</a> ? Claiming the church's jurisdiction over state law to keep the dirty laundry in. Nothing new indeed.
Interesting article. Looks like obstruction of justice alright. And of course, nothing new here.
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djm
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Post by djm »

I am surprised that, with the Catholic church's own long history of homosexualism in the clergy, that there isn't a voice within the church to support and protect homosexualism - is there?

djm
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Post by Flyingcursor »

Anyone here read John Boswell?
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Cayden

Post by Cayden »

<a href="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/1979 ... l">This</a> should give some background to the previous post.
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TomB
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Post by TomB »

emmline wrote:Well, my hat's off to Spain...but I wouldn't have expected less from the new Pope. This would be one of many ideology conflicts I'd have to sift through if I were Catholic. I have enough as a liberal Protestant.

Here! Here!

This sort of thing should be no surprise to any who has studied/read about the new Pope.

All the Best, Tom
"Consult the Book of Armaments"
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