Help?-- I am suddenly an "expert" (long)

fluti31415 · Post by **fluti31415** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:43 am

I have some friends in a rural community who have purchased a chanter kit for a highland (I think) bagpipe for one of their kids. Because I play the oboe, and have the double reed "thing" down, and because I kind of sort of pretend to know what I'm doing when I play Irish flute, they have asked me for help getting started with this.

I know that this is not a highland bagpipe forum, but I'm begging you all for some advice about where to go for sound information. Is anyone on this list also playing other kinds of pipes? What are some good sources that I can trust? I don't even know enough to know how many different kinds there are.

They live in the Colorado mountains, in a town of 300 people (only 3,000 people in the entire county), and live 75 miles (county roads, no interstate) from the nearest large town. Getting them to a teacher in town is not reasonable at this point. My goal is not to teach them, but to work as a more experienced student to help get them started well enough so that coming to town for a lesson, maybe once a month, would be worth their while, but not giving them any bad habits in the meantime. I see them about every other week on the weekends, when I go out to the mountains.

I have a plan so far. Could you all tell me if it reasonable?

The first thing I have done is to ask them exactly what they bought. Once I find that out, I'm willing to get an inexpensive (under $50, if that is possible?) chanter and a good, solid book to read. I am pretty well trained in classical music, and know more than the average amount of music theory (three years of college music theory study, plus a some reading on jazz and trad stuff), so I can work through anything that has to do with reading music and learning fingerings, I think. I can also figure out scales/modes, if there is a book to get me started.

After I figure out what it is they have, and read the most rudimentary material on it, I do plan to find a player in town and maybe take a few marathon lessons (maybe once every two or three weeks??) but I am not sure about how to go about doing that. It's not like I can look in the yellow pages, or can I? I am in Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA. I should add that it is not my goal to be an excellent player, because I know the dangers of stretching myself too thin.

Am I on a right track, is there a better alternative, or are we just doomed? What would you all advise? I know this is far from the ideal situation, but at this stage, I am looking at myself as being "better than nothing," which is what they would have otherwise.

Thanks very very much!!

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:52 am

Personally, I would seek out an instructor after discovering what it is, exactly, your friend has.

Both you and they will need proper instruction on holding the instrument, fingering, tone control etc. etc.

No offense intended, but trying to instruct somebody on an instrument you have no knowledge of is a little like the blind teaching the blind, it really isn't fair to you or your friend to start off on the wrong foot... er, finger as it were.

The pipes, of any ilk, are really quite different from all of the other wood wind instruments, and honestly, not something one can just pick up and play.

Again, I mean no ill feeling.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:56 am

Plus GHBs have many complicated embellishements which somebody can not teach them self I don;t mean to brag but I am a pretty damn good FLute and Whistle player with noe instrumction from anybody but failed at teaching myself the GHBs. Check your PMs I have a practice chanter that you might want.

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:11 am

You mention that you play trad flute. For a while, I was the only uilleann piper in Quebec city (that I know of) so I couldn't get any direct advice from other pipers. A friend of mine plays trad flute and was able to show me crans, rolls, grace notes, triplets, etc.

These day, I meet with other UPipers ever month or so and I can see that the tricks I learned from the flautist don't make my style of playing significantly different.

What I mean to say is that flute can be close enough to piping (uilleann at least) that the student can get some benefit.

By the way, you sound very dedicated. Best of luck.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:19 am

PJ wrote:You mention that you play trad flute. For a while, I was the only uilleann piper in Quebec city (that I know of) so I couldn't get any direct advice from other pipers. A friend of mine plays trad flute and was able to show me crans, rolls, grace notes, triplets, etc.

These day, I meet with other UPipers ever month or so and I can see that the tricks I learned from the flautist don't make my style of playing significantly different.

What I mean to say is that flute can be close enough to piping (uilleann at least) that the student can get some benefit.

By the way, you sound very dedicated. Best of luck.

I am not certain PJ, but my hunch is their friend has a GHB practice chanter... and knowledge of the flute really wouldn't be of any help at all.

fluti31415 · Post by **fluti31415** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:24 pm

Thanks for this advice. There is enough detail here for me to see that even just getting started on this is more than I should handle. I'll try to convince them to find a teacher.

I really appreciate the candidness and sensitivity to this you showed. Thanks very much!!

Baglady · Post by **Baglady** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:35 pm

Go here: http://palmettopipesanddrums.com/
Downloadable music and MP3's. An excellent place to start. Get lots of pipeing CDs to listen to. One of the most important things to do from the begining is to get the correct scale and tuneing in to your head. TUNE THE CHANTER!!! This is the ONE thing you really have to have a teacher for. But you can use the MP3s on the above sight to help you with that.

Great Pipes are not as mysterious as some make them out to be but there is a standard that we try to achieve which means lots of hard work and practice. When this is not done, and someone goes out sounding like ##$#@@#, we pipers who have done, and do do the hard work, get offended.

Good luck and feel free to PM me.

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:45 pm

The sheet music seems OK, though the settings are a bit hacky. The sound files are poor. Scotland the Brave, for example - embellishments are variously timed and the player doesn't appear to have much control over them. Two taorluaths weren't played correctly and there was one serious crossing noise and a couple of catches. I wouldn't take these sound files too seriously.

As for getting a teacher, that is indeed a neccessity - just make sure it is a good one. GHBs seem to attract a fair number of charlatan teachers. bobdunsire.com is a good place to refer them to.

Cheers,
Calum

L42B · Post by **L42B** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:30 pm

Your best chance is to contact your towns nearest pipe major. I'm sure he will be glad to help. The other thing to remember is if your friend has bought a set of bagpipes (GHB's?). Encourage him to learn from the practice chanter first. I can remember getting on the bagpipes for the first time. For a couple of weeks I struggled to get a clear note out of the chanter. I've been playing GHB's for at least four years and they are still an incredibly difficult instrument to play.

I've seen many people who have come through the local pipe band and have been 'put off' by the complexity of the instrument. Although it has nine notes. The embelishments and gracenotes make things all the more difficult. If your friend is going to be successfull. A lot of encouragment will be needed from the local community. Trust me on that. I've been through that difficult learning stage (and technically still am).

This is opinion. But at times I think they're harder to play than the Uilleann Pipes. But then again opinions will vary from person to person.

Best of luck with your (and your friends) endevours.

Cheers L42B

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:10 am

Calum wrote:The sheet music seems OK, though the settings are a bit hacky. The sound files are poor. Scotland the Brave, for example - embellishments are variously timed and the player doesn't appear to have much control over them. Two taorluaths weren't played correctly and there was one serious crossing noise and a couple of catches.

I can't get behind that recording. L42B GHBs an UPs are different and in ways GHBs are harder but it takes longer to be able to play the UPs from what I hear.

fluti31415 · Post by **fluti31415** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:05 am

L42B wrote:Your best chance is to contact your towns nearest pipe major. I'm sure he will be glad to help. The other thing to remember is if your friend has bought a set of bagpipes (GHB's?). Encourage him to learn from the practice chanter first.
Best of luck with your (and your friends) endevours.

Cheers L42B

Thanks for this advice. Now that I have calmed down a little bit, I have checked out the resources in my town, and I see that there are two pipe and drum bands I could go to for some advice and lessons.

Thanks to the advice on the list, my new plan is see if I could arrange a long first lesson with a local expert, and then try to coax them to come to town for a full afternoon's lesson. Since the student is a teenaged girl, I could bribe them with a promised trip to the mall or movies, as well. After the first lesson, we'll just have to see what is available.

They live a 1.5 hour drive from town, so getting into town for a regular lesson will turn into a half-day adventure. I don't think that they will be doing that any time soon!

They bought a chanter-book-CD combination, so I know that they don't have the full set of pipes (thankfully!)

You all have been very helpful. Thanks for letting me know that I"m getting in over my head with such grace. thanks for the resources. Thanks for the encouragement, in spite of your reservations. I will remember the helpfulness and sensitivity shown in this group for a long time!!

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:16 am

A lot of North American pipers are in the same boat - the main thing is to make sure she gets regular tuition. Even if it's once a month, making it regular will do a lot of good.

There are also a lot of summer schools going around, many of which will take total beginners - these are a really good start. Jim MacGillivray's school in Ontario is absolutely ideal, but I think there's one in Colorado as well.

Cheers,
Calum

Rockymtnpiper · Post by **Rockymtnpiper** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:39 am

but I think there's one in Colorado as well.

I believe its the Balmoral School. I think Alex MacKintosh, PM for the Colorado Irish is still involved with putting together the summer school.

Which Rural Colorado town is it?? I might know a local Piper in that area, possibly even a decent one.

Eivind · Post by **Eivind** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:42 am

GHB is completely different from Uilleann.
I would strongly suggest the forums at Bobdunsire.com. They have different rooms for every level.
Also, get a technochanter. It is an electronic fingering practice instrument made in sweden(http://www.technochanter.com/). Cost: about $200.
It can prove invaluable since their kid can practice fingerings for actual melodies, while still perhaps not getting a single note out of the real GHB chanter. That may provide some extra encouragement. It also provides peace and quite in the home, since they can practice with headphones

Good luck,
Eivind

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:29 am

I'm quite firmly against electronic chanters for beginners, as a regular practice instrument. Your fingering becomes quite unnatural when you've played one for a while (trust me, I know), and would probably do as much damage to a beginners progress as it would do good.

On the other hand, I have no problem pulling mine out and giving a beginner a shot of it just to try.

Cheers,
Calum