Rising gasoline prices - USA only or Worldwide Issue

[ChrisA]

I'm not understanding this 'you live far away, so it's your fault you use so much gas' thing.
Don't you understand that houses cost more in the city than further out? (Or maybe they
don't where you are, I don't know.) I live as far away from the city as I do because that
was the nearest town that had buyable houses.

As it turns out, I'm now working a very short commute away, at a company that's far outside
of the city for probably the same reasons... but, if I'd stayed in the city and gotten the same
job I have now, then I'd be on a long reverse commute. I really view the length of my
commute as being a product of chance.

I don't know who you people are that you can pick the location of your next job and the
location of your next home to be as close as you want, but that doesn't resemble my life.

(Oh, and I drive a toyota corolla at 35 mpg (measured, not sticker), and would drive a
hybrid if I could afford one and take public transit if it existed. There is a train station
near my house, but it only travels in an east-west line, no good for me.)

While I do grumble at the gas prices, I'm mostly put out by the fact that my car gets
-only- 35 mpg, and the fact that we don't have enough solar and wind power out there
(no, really, there's a connection... energy is exchangeable in the electric sector, we
could cut gas prices if, say, all the diesel burning electric plants were shut down. 'twould
also be nice if sustainable electricity were being pumped into the grid at rates that would
make electric heat in the winter the most cost-efficient option, then we could lose oil
burning heating systems...)

Regarding the average cost of car ownership.... I can't imagine wasting that much money
on a vehicle. Insurance, depreciation, and all, I probably have a cost much closer to $2000
per year, not including gas. I can't imagine letting it get over $3000.

I will grant that -as a society- Americans have 'chosen' this (or been sold this) state
of affairs, but individuals are driven by their individual situations.

[IRTradRU?]

While I do grumble at the gas prices, I'm mostly put out by the fact that my car gets -only- 35 mpg, and the fact that we don't have enough solar and wind power out there (no, really, there's a connection... energy is exchangeable in the electric sector, we
could cut gas prices if, say, all the diesel burning electric plants were shut down. 'twould also be nice if sustainable electricity were being pumped into the grid at rates that would make electric heat in the winter the most cost-efficient option, then we could lose oil burning heating systems...)

Chris,

Re: wind power generation, I am very much in favor of the development of wind farms.

Your avatar indicates that you are from Massachussetts. I understand that your two Senators put the major kibosh on a wind farm that was being designed for just off Cape Cod. Is that true?

What were those Senators names again?

[missy]

Chris - yes it IS the opposite here than where you live. I live in the city (and, unfortunately, pay the city taxes) but the housing, for the most part is a lot lower in cost than that out from the city. For example, in the farming area I grew up in (25 miles away from where I work - and a coworker lives a stones throw from my old house), the houses now go for an average of $300,000 - and $500,000 is not uncommon. And these are TINY lots!!!

But housing is a lot less in the city (ever hear of "white flight"?). As long as you understand you may have some section 8 or group home housing by you (which I have no problem with), you can get some great deals. Although - as I said - the property taxes are still high.

How do I find a house near where I work? I've worked at the same location (and may be moving to one 2 miles away) since 1978. Got an apartment 2 miles away in 1979, bought my first house in 1982, and the current one in 2000. So, the job came first, the location second.

I agree that the cost equation for cars doesn't add up for me, either - because we tend to drive our cars until they die. We upkeep them, of course, and do a lot of work ourselves. My 1998 Grand Am has 66,000 miles on it, and last long highway trip we took I got 32 mpg. DH has a 96 Contour that is still under 100,000 - and I think his mileage is comparable to mine. We also have a 1979 pickup that my son drives (lousy milage, but he doesn't drive too far except to his girlfriends house!) oh - and that has 89,000 miles on it (original!). And a 92 conversion van that we bought used 2 years ago. Like I said - drive em till they die.

Missy

[Montana]

We also have a 1979 pickup that my son drives (lousy milage, but he doesn't drive too far except to his girlfriends house!) oh - and that has 89,000 miles on it (original!). And a 92 conversion van that we bought used 2 years ago. Like I said - drive em till they die.

I'm with you, Missy!
I have a 1987 Toyota with 93,000 miles on it (original). I plan on keeping it until I can get an electric or hydrogen car (or whatever renewable energy may yet come along). I had 92,000 miles on it in 2001. The majority of my commuting, shopping, etc., is done on my bicycle. I have no problem with weight or staying in shape. My gasoline budget may amount to $100/year.

[Jeff Stallard]

It isn't mandatory, however, for the oven mitt in my local supermarket to be manufactured 3000 miles away. If gas prices ever make transportation genuinely prohibitive, you'd probably see local goods become more competitive, and some more localization in manufacturing to offset the change. This wouldn't negate higher gas prices, but the effect would be softened some.

Caj

Yes, exactly. If fuel prices got too high, you wouldn't see a mega-plant in California shipping goods to the entire country. You'd see localized manufacturing and distribution. I think that's a great thing though.

The problem with wind power isn't cost of production (which is cheap), but cost of distribution. Electricity isn't cheap to store and transport. I don't know exactly how it compares to gasoline though.

Americans love to bitch about gas prices, but honestly it's still too low to have a huge impact. For example, lets say the price rises from $2 to $3 overnight. The entire country would go nuts, right? Okay, so let's say you were spending $30 a week at $2/gal. You'll only be paying an extra $15 a week for the $3 gas. If you are so strapped for cash that you can't afford $15 a week, you have some serious problems. But of course, gas won't rise $1 overnight will it? Let's say it only rises $0.10 overnight. Do the math, and notice how TRIVIAL that extra amount really is.

[IRTradRU?]

It isn't mandatory, however, for the oven mitt in my local supermarket to be manufactured 3000 miles away.

True, but if it WERE manufactured in the US, it would cost $15.95, vs. the $5.95 you pay now.

[Jayhawk]

The rising cost of gas for a car is annoying but I agree for most folks it's not too big a deal, yet. However, the costs that increase across the board add up. Bread, milk, coal, cement - anything not made locally increases in price to cover the extra shipping costs for the company. Start adding up 10 cents here, electricity increases (ours went up despite having one nuclear plant in the area and two high efficiency coal plants - the coal has to be shipped in by train which uses diesel), etc. and you're starting to talk about a lot more money than 10 to 20 dollars per month for your car. I wouldn't be surprised if between all the increased costs many of us won't end up paying an extra $1,000 per year with the doubling of gas prices.

As for companies moving to localized production, I don't see that happening until their market completely collapses. It's cheaper to manufacture at one site and simply pass on the fuel costs to the consumer. Face it, we're nothing more than consumers/customers, and corporations are not going to decrease their profit margin unless they have to.

Eric

[IRTradRU?]

Let's not forget the TAXES that have been added on to the price of gasoline over the years. It's currently 28% of the price.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/423165.asp?cp1=1

[Wormdiet]

Let's not forget the TAXES that have been added on to the price of gasoline over the years. It's currently 28% of the price.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/423165.asp?cp1=1

After all, the interstate highway system is not worth paying for, either.

:roll:


HOw can one complain about gas taxes and then seek to maintain such a wasteful lifestyle? Mindboggling.

[IRTradRU?]

Let's not forget the TAXES that have been added on to the price of gasoline over the years. It's currently 28% of the price.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/423165.asp?cp1=1

After all, the interstate highway system is not worth paying for, either.

:roll:


HOw can one complain about gas taxes and then seek to maintain such a wasteful lifestyle? Mindboggling.

Gas prices are on the order of $2.77/gallon, national average.

28% of $2.77 = $0.78 = taxed amount of gasoline.

The price of gas 2 years ago was on the order of $1.65 national average.
28% of $1.65 = $0.46 = taxed amount of gasoline.

Are you suggesting that constuction / maintenance costs of US highways has increased nearly 70% in two years time?

[IRTradRU?]

HOw can one complain about gas taxes and then seek to maintain such a wasteful lifestyle? Mindboggling.

Who's got a wasteful lifestyle? You?

[Wormdiet]

Gas prices are on the order of $2.77/gallon, national average.

28% of $2.77 = $0.78 = taxed amount of gasoline.

The price of gas 2 years ago was on the order of $1.65 national average.
28% of $1.65 = $0.46 = taxed amount of gasoline.

Are you suggesting that constuction / maintenance costs of US highways has increased nearly 70% in two years time?

No. I have no idea. HOwever, taxes in and of themselves are needful - especially if they support crucial infrastructure. Taxes aren't a four-letter word. HOw else do you think highways should be built?

Or should they be privatized?

Americans in general live a wasteful lifestyle, especially as regards transportation. IN addition, we consume more resources than much of the rest of the world combined. THis is true in both gross and per capita measures. Many of the "necessities" we acquire are fads, entertaining gimmicks, and toys, but not necessities. AM I guilty? Absolutely. I could sell off my music gear and probably feed a family of four in some third world country for a number of months.

[IRTradRU?]

Worm,

Sure, taxes - when prudently utilized, are necessary.

Problem: They rarely are.

Example: The 'Big Dig' in Boston, a boondoggle of astronomical proportions, had its bills paid for with 75% of national tax revenues.

Now, let's talk about the debacle it has become.

Gas taxes rank right up there with the massive increases placed on tobacco products - primarily cigarettes. The politicians all claim that the taxes will be used for anti-smoking education, saving cats up in trees, making the air smell like lilacs, ad nauseum.

But they rarely are.

That's the problem with taxes, and gasoline has been particularly over-taxed, IMO.

[IRTradRU?]

Americans in general live a wasteful lifestyle, especially as regards transportation. IN addition, we consume more resources than much of the rest of the world combined. THis is true in both gross and per capita measures. Many of the "necessities" we acquire are fads, entertaining gimmicks, and toys, but not necessities. AM I guilty? Absolutely. I could sell off my music gear and probably feed a family of four in some third world country for a number of months.

Well?

Let us know when it hits Ebay....

[Wormdiet]

Worm,

Sure, taxes - when prudently utilized, are necessary.

Problem: They rarely are.

Example: The 'Big Dig' in Boston, a boondoggle of astronomical proportions, had its bills paid for with 75% of national tax revenues.

Now, let's talk about the debacle it has become.

Gas taxes rank right up there with the massive increases placed on tobacco products - primarily cigarettes. The politicians all claim that the taxes will be used for anti-smoking education, saving cats up in trees, making the air smell like lilacs, ad nauseum.

But they rarely are.

That's the problem with taxes, and gasoline has been particularly over-taxed, IMO.

NO disagreements here.

What does "overtaxed" mean in this context?

In theory, excise taxes serve two purposes (beyond just generating revenue):
1) Discourage a behavior that is seen as harmful to the public.
2) Provide funds for reparing the damage caused by said behavior.

I can forward you some economic graphs and models if'n' yer interested.

The problem is, especially in the tobacco thing, that #2 has been completely, totally disregarded. pisses me off too.