Article: Americans will need passports for Canada, Mex trips

[avanutria]

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200504 ... BTI80.html

U.S. to Tighten Border Controls by 2008

Apr 5, 12:37 PM (ET)

By BARRY SCHWEID

WASHINGTON (AP) - Americans will need passports to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, Panama and Bermuda by 2008, part of a tightening of U.S. border controls in an era of terrorist threat, three administration officials said Tuesday.

Similarly, Canadians will also have to present a passport to enter the United States, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity. Canadians have been the only foreigners allowed to enter the United States with just a driver's license.

More at the link.

This was posted on another board during a conversation about the percentage of passport-holding Americans. I often get asked "is it true that most Americans don't have a passport?" How do you answer that satisfactorily - it depends so much on who you know in the states!

Another link in that discussion pointed to a study (individual, not company) done in 2003 about passport levels:

http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2003 ... merica.php

(Granted the link immediately above is over two years old, but it has some interesting discussion comments at the bottom.)

I previously lived in upstate NY and went to Niagara Falls several times as a child, crossing the border to do so. I remember being astounded that all we had to do for the whole car of people to enter Canada was have the driver show a US driver's licence. All we had to do to get back was show the licence again and tell them what tourist junk we bought.

[GaryKelly]

Yet you can get into Wales with nothing. You only have to pay to get back out again

[avanutria]

Yeah, that was mentioned in the other thread as well:

But they [Scotland and England] aren't separate nation-states. I remember trying to explain that to my friend when she got her passport out to cross the English-Scottish border. Man, that wasn't an easy concept to get across to her!

Technically:
England is a country,
Scotland is a country,
Northern Ireland is a province, and
Wales is a principality.

But none of them are individual soveriegn nation-states. All together they form the (soveriegn nation-state of) United Kingdom. Scotland, England, and Wales on their own form Great Britain.

That about right, Gary?

[Flyingcursor]

The whole thing is absurd. There are a lot of places where people go back and forth daily. The cost of a passport will probably go up.

I've been thinking about some implications that aren't being spoken.

1. Government make more money.
2. Only citizens can get a passport.
3. Even more information for the Govt to track your every move.

Will it hurt the tourist trade along border towns? Especially in Mexico where a lot of people trek across the border for a day of shopping.

[Walden]

I have a passport, having lived overseas, but the vast majority of people with whom I interact here in Oklahoma do not. Most of my close relatives would no more set foot on an airplane than a space shuttle. All the time we lived abroad, we never had visitors from back home.

[Lambchop]

I don't have a passport.

I don't have to report where I live, either. Noticed on a website over the weekend that persons in one country have to notify the government promptly every time they change residences.

[Jayhawk]

Peggy - Don't you need to notify your drivers license folks? How about your municipal utilities? I'm willing to bet you end up notifying some level of goverment...it's a bit like US taxes. Sure, our income tax level is low, but between all the sales taxes, city taxes, sin taxes, etc. we end up paying a large chunk of our money (mutliple levels of taxation on the same dollar you earned) just like most other countries.

On topic here now, I don't have a passport anymore. Living about 1,500 miles from the nearest coast, I haven't left the country since the 80s. A lot of my friends overseas are amazed when they come to visit - they don't realize how far it is for me to leave the US when they can drive 2-3 hours and go through 3 countries.

Eric

[I.D.10-t]

I'm willing to bet you end up notifying some level of goverment...

Having not lived in my home town for 12 years I still have it on my driver's license. I still consider it my "permanent" address. Not once when I moved did I have to register with the city or state that I was doing so. Yes, taxes have you state where you live and credit cards can track your movements, but at least the government has to do the work (if it so chooses) to gain that information and I will not be held responsible if I move and forgot to tell the government where I live, what my phone number is, and what brand of fife I play.

When I was growing up, the US use to pride it's self on freedom of movement to show that we were not like the USSR. Their were plenty of “papers please” jokes. In a lot of ways the red scare sucked and was used to convict people for being communists unless they told us who they knew were communists. I feel that a lot of our liberties were also protected by the red scare. Now it seems that even flying within the country you have better have your papers in order.

In short, I do not feel any safer, illegal movement of people will not change, and citizens will have to pay for the privilege of having the government track their movements. Fortunately this law still allows you to leave, just not reenter.

Does this tinfoil hat make me look crazy?

[Charlene]

Here's the official US Dept. of State link: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2225.html

And a story from the Seattle paper: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/218 ... ort06.html

Yuk. I was afraid it was going to come to this eventually but it still makes me feel like a jail cell slamming shut.

At least my husband's family reunion trip to Ontario this summer won't be affected.

Going to Canada used to be so easy. When we lived in Michigan when I was a child we used to go to either Windsor or Sarnia two or three times a summer and, as stated above, just answer a couple of questions and declare what we bought. Last November when I went to Canada for a concert the questioning was a little more intense but it still didn't take too long to go through. We have a friend who just got married to a Canadian, and right now they are still trying to keep their own citizenship. So part of the time they live at her house in BC, part of the time they live here in Washington. She said the last time the customs official told her not only should she bring her passport, driver's license, and/or birth certificate, but also utility bills to prove that she has ties to Canada and won't be moving here and getting on welfare.

Like this is going to be the most secure thing anyway. Like passports have never been forged. :roll:

Anybody want to take bets on how long before we're all microchipped and have to pass a retina scan to do ANYTHING?

edited to add the Seattle PI link

[Redwolf]

I've gone years without a passport...in fact, I just got a new one a couple of weeks ago in anticipation of this summer England trip. The fact is that few Americans NEED a passport, unless they travel abroad frequently...though that will surely change if the rules are changed to require passports for travel to Canada and Mexico.

BTW, a passport is ADVISED for travel to the above countries as well. Going back and forth across the border in a car is one thing, but when you fly or take a cruise ship, it's a lot faster to get back into the U.S. if you have your passport available.

Redwolf

[avanutria]

Good point, Red. I just remembered how, when I was making an airplane trip within the US, I seemed to finish with the check-in desk a LOT faster when I showed a passport than when I showed a Driver's Licence. Seemed to streamline things a little bit.

Plus I got to feel a little more worldly and sophisticated

[jbarter]

From what I've seen on some other threads I got the impression that some of you colonials considered leaving your home state was going abroad.

I can still remember the amazement I felt a few years ago when watching an amercan TV show. The main character (in her mid to late thirties) had left her home somewhere in the mid-states and moved to California. The first thing she did was to go look at the sea because she'd never seen it before in her life. Believe me, living on our little island that is really hard to get your head round.

[Sunnywindo]

I don't know as if the passport thing bothers me as much in an of itself.... what does bother me is how/why it is being done... as a security issue, as if it's going to be a huge big step in stopping terrorists. (Okay, that doesn't sound quite right, but I'm tired, so apologies ahead of time if none of this makes sense.)

How many thousands of people are crossing our boarders illegally (as in breaking the law) every week and our government is going to put their efforts into punishing, I mean making law abiding citizans have passports so they can somehow rationalize that our borders are more secure? Not to mention, as Charlene pointed out, passports can be forged just as well as other forms of ID.

Surely there are other things that could be done first that would have a better impact in the "secure our borders" arena than this passport thing?

Course, I never go anywhere, but this still get to me. It's just the surrounding cirumstances of the passport idea that bugs me the most, not necessarily the passports themselves.

On a side note, not intended to totally change the subject, but this topic brought this other bit to mind... regarding security of the "homeland" (why does that term not sit well with me?) and the Patriot Act which is being pushed for upcomming renewal into permanent status: According to the news/an Idaho congressman I saw on the news last night, under the act, an FBI agent can enter your home at any time they want and not even notify you that they had been there. Goodie. :roll:

Perhaps passport requirements aren't so troubling when compared to some provisions that already exist?

Okay, was going to try to relax for a while on the political stuff, but got sucked back in somehow. Yikes! But this doesn't really count, does it?


Sara (*shuts computer off and goes to absorb the beautiful spring day*)

[Montana]

I agree that it's not so much requiring a passport that bothers me but what it represents... as opposed to what it is supposed to represent.

I have a passport but I'd estimate well over half the people in my town do not... and I think I'm being conservative. But a lot of people here go to Canada on a regular basis so that may change. When Banff and Calgary and a number of other ski hills are only an 8 hour drive away, lots of folks used to travel to go skiiing. I had friends who grew up in San Diego who told of regular weekend trips down to Mexico. Guess that'll change.

I sure hope they're ramping up the passport offices. As I recall, they advise that you give them a couple months (which is already a little ludicris) to process your passport unless you're willing to pay more money for a rush job. If more people will be requesting passports, the time delay may increase.

I read where they're recruiting militia volunteers in Arizona to patrol the border there. I wonder if they'll be checking passports...

[IRTradRU?]

I don't know what the big deal is here... I flew into Toronto 4 years ago, and a passport was required to enter.

Then I made the mistake of telling Mr. Government Man at the window that I was there on business. 45 minutes later, they finally let me in. They were SURE I was there to take away someone's job.