Many Uilleann pipers have lost their only contacts w/others

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:49 pm

Joseph E. Smith wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:Joseph, I don't like your current signature avatar as it has this retractable bright green booger that keeps peeking out of your left nostril. It makes me uncomfortable, as do those space larvae coming out of your ears.
You don't like it? YOU don't like it? How do you think it makes me feel?

Um...infested?

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:51 pm

Nanohedron wrote:
Joseph E. Smith wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:Joseph, I don't like your current signature avatar as it has this retractable bright green booger that keeps peeking out of your left nostril. It makes me uncomfortable, as do those space larvae coming out of your ears.
You don't like it? YOU don't like it? How do you think it makes me feel?
Um...infested?

... you don't know the half of it....

missy · Post by **missy** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:54 pm

I have no idea what happened - I don't read that board - but:

"I still don't understand...you haven't really explained why all the slagging matters."

Dale doesn't have to explain (although "knowing" Dale, I'm sure he has). It's his board. He can lock down, throw out, or do whatever he wants. If you don't like it - start your own with your own set of rules.

Or follow his. Your choice.

Now, go play nicely children!!

Missy

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:58 pm

Jennie · Post by **Jennie** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:04 pm

Kevin L. Rietmann wrote:I still don't understand...you haven't really explained why all the slagging matters. Does harsh, unwarranted criticism take up extra bandwith or something? ... Why can't you just ignore all the bile? Liability reasons or the like?

How about reasons like the desire for a community where decency matters? To create a respectful, helpful atmosphere? To encourage members to do the right thing?

What's not to get?

Jennie

John Mulhern · Post by **John Mulhern** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:38 pm

Mukade wrote:

For a troll, it is easy to ignore responsibility. For a moderator, it is impossible.

...which is my point. In any relationship, whoever care's LEAST about it...control's it. Human nature being what it is, there exist folk's whose sole Internet purpose is to instigate conflict...then, step back & watch the ensuing chaos. Ban 'em! ...don't anguish about it...do it. You can't have it both way's, Dale. If fostering "civility" is your primary aim, then you, or a surrogate, will have to devote daily time to monitoring posts. If this time is unavailable for you to allot...then end the forum. Archive the knowledge base...or transfer it to someone who values it...ala Deja Vu's archive transferral to Google.You're a physician, Dale? You've induced a coma in the patient, to lance a pustular zit,...when a simple topical anasthetic would've been fine.

rasp · Post by **rasp** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:51 pm

mature and resonsible that is the question, is it not? if it is thought that the rules here are tight then your isp rules should be read, or maybe your workplace rules. civility is the rule at any of these places. create an unhealthy atmosphere at work and you are out looking for a new job. create one on a forum and you are off or locked out. continue attacking or attack the right person and your isp is notified and you are off the net.
tis that simple.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:56 pm

I'm on Dale's side. It's hard for some folks to imagine, but there are people using these boards who are not particularly inspired but strife, bickering, and crude rude posting. I sometimes think that posters who act that way here are doing so because they are unable to hold their own on boards that admires such behavior. A number of longtime posters left C&F because of impolite & O/T posters. Many, including myself, have returned since C&F instuted the Poststructural Pub. I believe the Pub was a positively brilliant move on Dale's part.

I'm not a piper (my mother lights candles daily in gratitude), but I think it would be a terrible loss to close the UP Board. Maybe a volunteer moderator can be found that has an iron fist, thick skin, patience, and a love of piping. I hope so for the good of all.

Some of us do appreciate your efforts Dale!

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:04 pm

I think Dale said somewhere that it is hard to ban people because they change computers or something. I'm sure he would (and does) ban them, but there is some sort of problem, they come back.

There are people who simply like conflict. They are very hard to deal with because they want a negative reaction. The only way to deal with them is to ignore them and thereby deny them what they are seeking, but then they often poke at you and poke at you until they get the negative reaction they are seeking. In this situation though, it seems as though it would be easier to ignore someone than if s/he were standing in front of you.

mukade · Post by **mukade** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Although I understand Dale's reasons to lock the board, I would hate to lose it.

Especially for people such as me, who live away from piping communities, it is a source of information and motivation.

Dale may have created the board as a courtesy to the pipers who also visited the whistle forum, but it has become one of the most active UP communities on the internet.

Just thinking about recent threads, I have gained some excellent advice on chanter grip and musical styles, and there is always interesting information from experienced pipers such as Peter Laban and Pat Sky, who we are lucky to have amongst us. (There are many others, too.)

I also obtained my most recent set of pipes thanks to information gained from Chiff. It is a wonderful resource.

I would like to echo a suggestion by another member that the creation of one or two UP board moderators would be the best way forward.

Mukade

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:24 pm

I agree with Cynth and Mukade here. In the pre-internet days, I ran a 27-line dialup chat bbs in Houston that actually turned a profit (and happened to be where I met my wife!). We didn't argue with rabble-rousers. We deleted their posts. They would yell and scream about it--we'd delete those posts too. Eventually, they gave up.

There are some people that you cannot reason with in a civilized manner, especially online. And there are some topics which are so inflammatory that even civilized people have trouble keeping things civil. It's certainly appropriate for those topics and those people to be moderated on a privately run system.

When I was interested in exiting the business, I sold it to someone else who had extreme views on free speech. They felt it was better to argue and be passionate in all things and never "censor" speeh. It's interesting to note that the system lasted less than 90 days after their policies went into effect.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:30 pm

Eh, if I were Dale I'd just delete all the PMs from these rudniks. Get some kind of filter to treat them like spam. And I'd definitely not let 'em have my phone number!
You guys sound like Matt Groening's high school political movement, Students for Decency. Cause if you're against Decency, well, what are you for?
Still all in all I hope they keep the forum up and running, the format especially is very nice, pics and all.

Kysh · Post by **Kysh** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:59 pm

I'm with Kevin.

Besides, I'm for rampant indecency, myself. ^^;

-Kysh

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:01 pm

Lorenzo wrote:I see there are some familiar names that have just registered on GC...is there another? As the piper plays softly and tenderly, is there yet another?

Come home, come home,
Ye who are pipers, come home,
Reedily, droningly,
Green board's a-calling,
Calling, U-pipers come home.

ChrisA · Post by **ChrisA** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:22 pm

Kevin L. Rietmann wrote: Why can't you just ignore all the bile?

There have already been other answers, including from Dale himself, but, I want to point
out that when you have these comments on this site, they are, inevitably associated
with the site itself. There -are- libel issues for any web-forum, but that probably
wouldn't extend beyond a take down notice (requiring Dale to delete offending posts.)

More problematically, though, when a site is host to vast amounts of slagging
and endless flamewars, it acquires a reputation. People are either drawn to it, because
they can't resist a fight, or they avoid it, because they want civil dialogue. If nobody exercises
control, the whole thing will degenerate. People who want to talk civilly will leave, people
looking for fights will stay. Some people will leave in disgust, and post dire warnings
elsewhere, and newbies we learn that chiff and fipple is a dangerous hangout of fanatical
verbal warriors. (Witness, in discussing 'what now', people have pointed to certain places as
heavily moderated, and others as intolerable pits of infighting... these reputations do
carry, and on these forums they are archived in perpetuity, so a bad rep is -really- hard to
shake.)

Now, it's certainly true that even in 'flame infested' sites, plenty of intellegent conversation
can and does take place, so it's not an absolute death-of-communication I'm talking about,
but a change in the way people perceive a forum. I think it's entirely reasonable to care about
the way the 'net-at-large will perceive your virtual clubhouse.

(Also, consider... does being thick-skinned to verbal barbs have anything to do with skill
and knowledge on a musical instrument? Do you really want your pool of correspondents
to be reduced to only those who thrive in an environment of infighting?)

--Chris