Sam Smith's music ban.

[jbarter]

Apparently Sam Smith's Brewery have banned all music in their pubs including sessions. That's my bro-in law's fledgling effort out the window then.

[dubhlinn]

My local, "The Pig and Whistle", here in beautiful downtown Scunny is a Sam Smith pub.
In order to avoid paying the increase in whatever licences are needed they have removed all Juke boxs,Radios and TV, from all their pubs.
In tonights local paper it says that they have also stopped the traditional gallon of beer prize for the winning quiz team each week.
The previous landlord once told me that the two elderly brothers who own the business are multi millionaires who dress in shabby clothes and have been known to arrive unannounced into one of their pubs for a discreet examination and on more than one occassion have been refused service over their down at heel dress sense.
One of the brothers doesn't even own a car and gets around on a clapped out bicycle or public transport.

Eccentric is not the word,but they do brew the finest of beer and sell it far cheaper than any of their competitors.

Funny old world eh?

Slan,
D.

[missy]

dubhlinn wrote:
"In order to avoid paying the increase in whatever licences are needed they have removed all Juke boxs,Radios and TV, from all their pubs. "

Even though I'm on the "other side of the pond" than you, I thought that might be the reason. And while I have no problem paying people for intellectual property, I do have a problem paying corporations and lawyers and knowing that the actual composers see little to nothing of the fees.

Missy

[Flyingcursor]

dubhlinn wrote:
"In order to avoid paying the increase in whatever licences are needed they have removed all Juke boxs,Radios and TV, from all their pubs. "

Even though I'm on the "other side of the pond" than you, I thought that might be the reason. And while I have no problem paying people for intellectual property, I do have a problem paying corporations and lawyers and knowing that the actual composers see little to nothing of the fees.

Missy

Amen. Here's to the internet musician revolution.

[dubhlinn]

Here are some links relative to this matter.

http://www.yorkshire-folk-arts.com/info ... miths.html

http://www.merchantduvin.com/pages/5_br ... smith.html

The Smiths do not appear to have a website of any shape or form but that would be very much in character.


Here's a link to the sign above the door of my local,I can't get it to print .



http://www.briantimms.com/pubsigns/pubs ... histle.gif


Slan,
D.

[ChrisA]

Do I understand correctly then, that when people play in public, a bunch of tunes that were
noted to already be part of the playing tradition a hundred years or more ago, then the
owner of the public premises where said playing occurs becomes liable for a public performing
fee to compensate the hard work of those currently making the finest works available on MTV?

There are times when the working of the laws of 'intellectual property' utterly baffles me.

--Chris

[dubhlinn]

Under English licencing law, a entertainment licence is required if more than two people are making music.Therefore it's ok to have a crappy duet that can't sing or play - usually with a drum machine - and a far too loud crappy P.A. but a small bunch of folkies sitting around a table bringing in custom on an otherwise dead midweek night is illegal,and the fines for permitting such activity are considerable

Slan,
D.

[OnTheMoor]

Same here in Ottawa. Last summer a local publican got in trouble from the National Capital Commission because he was hosting trad sessions every Thursday.

[ChrisA]

I think, at the risk of reverting to primitive netgibberish, there's only one thing that can
be said about cases like this: "Oh, my goodness! What in the world?!?"

[anniemcu]

What a great load o' compost!

I'm also for payin' the dues to those who own the rights, but it hits a point of ridiculum, and this sure sounds like it.

[IRTradRU?]

Under English licencing law, a entertainment licence is required if more than two people are making music.Therefore it's ok to have a crappy duet that can't sing or play - usually with a drum machine - and a far too loud crappy P.A. but a small bunch of folkies sitting around a table bringing in custom on an otherwise dead midweek night is illegal,and the fines for permitting such activity are considerable

Slan,
D.

Thanks for the clarification on what the licensing issue is all about.

As information, most US states and cities have similiar types of licenses which allow a business owner to sell beer, wine & spirits. There are tavern licenses (beverages only served), hotel licenses (food & bev served, but longer hours allowed) cabaret licenses (food & bev, standard closing time, but entertainment allowed), etc.

It's all a matter of Bigger Government taking more, and providing less.
$$$$$$

[anniemcu]

Under English licencing law, a entertainment licence is required if more than two people are making music.Therefore it's ok to have a crappy duet that can't sing or play - usually with a drum machine - and a far too loud crappy P.A. but a small bunch of folkies sitting around a table bringing in custom on an otherwise dead midweek night is illegal,and the fines for permitting such activity are considerable

Slan,
D.

Thanks for the clarification on what the licensing issue is all about.

As information, most US states and cities have similiar types of licenses which allow a business owner to sell beer, wine & spirits. There are tavern licenses (beverages only served), hotel licenses (food & bev served, but longer hours allowed) cabaret licenses (food & bev, standard closing time, but entertainment allowed), etc.

It's all a matter of Bigger Government taking more, and providing less.
$$$$$$

Actually, I think it more a case of conscience-less lawyers who *use* government and who use their clients to find ways to squeeze the bejaysus out of everyone they can figure on getting a dime or or so from.

It's benefiting no-one but them. It's one reason why I don't even think about covering any current music (that and the fact that I would damage it needlessly, LOL)

[Lambchop]

Under English licencing law, a entertainment licence is required if more than two people are making music.Therefore it's ok to have a crappy duet that can't sing or play - usually with a drum machine - and a far too loud crappy P.A. but a small bunch of folkies sitting around a table bringing in custom on an otherwise dead midweek night is illegal,and the fines for permitting such activity are considerable

Slan,
D.

Oh, dear. That's positively repressive. Sounds like a tax.

I'm thinking y'all need to have a little tea party. Solved all our problems, and maybe it'll work for you, too!

I'm sure we can send some Native American outfits to you!

[Darwin]

In the US, just playing background music in a public place makes you liable for fees to BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, or whoever. This potentially includes things like a CD player (but maybe not a radio) in a doctor's waiting room.

Take a look at http://proairshow.com/Music%20Licence.h ... _Royalties

My understanding is that whatever part of the fees don't go to the bureaucrats and lawyers is divvied up among all represented musicians on the basis of sales, with no regard for whose music is actually being played.

If this is correct, it means that if you're playing a Jeff White CD in your bar, pretty much all of the money from your fees will be going to the top-selling pop performers, like 50 Cent and Kelly Clarkson, while Jeff will probably not receive a penny of it.

My son and daughter-in-law had a Korean-Japanese restaurant for a while, and played Korean background music. One day, a guy came in and told them that they would have to pay this fee. How much do you think the Korean musicians would get from that? Note that he never checked to see who the musicians were. From what I've heard, that's common. However, from the site mentioned above, it appears that BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC can only collect for artists whom they actually represent. If that's the case, then it looks like a common tactic is to simply intimidate people into paying a fee without proving that their organization is entitled to it.

Certainly, if you're playing KPIG in the background, these organizations are unlikely to know which musicians are being played each day.

[GaryKelly]

Remember this thread jb? Not even the Morris men can come to the rescue if the landlords not only refuse to cough up the entertainment tax but kill all entertainment stone dead to avoid the fines

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=23326