a question for the straight men here

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amar
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Post by amar »

Cranberry wrote:Well, it's a Catholic Jesuit institution, and as a Quaker I already have concerns about not calling people 'Father', etc. I don't use titles at all, for anything or anybody. I don't call my current professors (community college) anything other than their first names, and I explained to them my reasons and they took it well, but I'm not sure how not calling a priest (many are professors or instructors) 'Father' will be. I have to talk to the school about this, but ugh...it's just worrysome.

I'm nervous about a lot of stuff, actually... :poke:
amar wrote:this is an outrage! AN OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!! Are you insinuating that non-vegetarians (like me) haven't got an open mind????
Of course not. She's insinuating that you don't have minds at all. ;)
oh. ok. just wanted to get that settled.

:D
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Chuck_Clark
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Post by Chuck_Clark »

You've gotten some very good suggestions. I don't have much to add except to wish you luck.

Forty years ago, there simply weren't very many men out of the closet, even though some of the guys (and girls) I knew them have come out since.

After forty years of working on civil rights, anti-war and feminist issues, not to mention twenty years of showing dogs, I've made numerous gay friends, some of whom are frankly rather effeminate.

Doesn't bother me now, but I'd be dishonest if I denied that it would have wierded me out a little back then. But then, I never lived in a dorm - I went straight to an apartment or trailer (depending on which year and school). I never really fancied living with ANYONE else in a single room.
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Post by Jack »

Chuck_Clark wrote:I don't have much to add except to wish you luck.
Thanks muchly. :)
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Post by emmline »

amar wrote: this is an outrage! AN OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!! Are you insinuating that non-vegetarians (like me) haven't got an open mind???? :swear:


:wink:
I'm not nearly subtle enough, nor intelligent enough, to insinuate.
But I'm sure, Amar, that your mind, as well as many of your other features, are quite open.
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Post by The Weekenders »

Considering the close quarters, I am sorta pessimistic for you Cran, just because people have a hard time being roomies even when they have the same orientation. Bad roommate stories are standard college conversation fare as well as young people startin' out. Its not just like "Friends" for some reason! College freshmen are already out of their comfort zone to begin with as it is, especially if they are straight out of their parents' homes. In a way, everybody who lives differently can seem weird at first.

I have worked with a very nice guy, considerate, accomplished etc who is pretty much flamin. I like and respect him but the one thing he does that really gets on my nerves is callin' me "Hon" and "Sweetie" and stuff like that. .He means well but expects that I should be comfortable with it. I have had a hard time speakin' up and I am afraid that this could happen to others, where someone is trying hard to be open-minded but feels intruded upon at a more personal level. And despite what others will say, it really isn't exhilarating to have your assumptions challenged on a day-to-day basis when you really want to just get some sleep, do your homework, etc etc.

I kind of think you probably don't even do that anyway because you have always shown care for other's feelings but in case you do, just remember that's its one thing to feel like you are co-existing with an alternate lifestyle in a roomate situation, but another to be "included" in that lifestyle. I have no problem with my friends orientation, I have met his partner, been to his house for an event etc but that one intrusion managed to bug me enough to be conscious of it and to mention it here.

For whatever reason, you can call somebody "Dude" or "Dawg" all day long, but callin' a hetero roommate "Girlfriend" might not work.

good luck!

PS. These things have a way of workin' out once you get there tho. I would imagine the first month has a lot of "adjustments" in any college campus dorm situation...
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Post by Dale »

I don't think you'll have any problems with the "Father" thing, especially if you explain your reasons. One thing to remember is that Jesuit institutions, are, for the the most part, fairly liberal and Jesuit conservatives are uncommon.

I think your roommate situation is going to pivot largely on the luck of the draw regarding who your roomie is. You can't control that. I agree that you shouldn't mislead the people at the college about it.

You might consider making a call to the people in the housing department, get as far up the ladder as you can, and explain your worries and let them know you're very nervous. I think you can feel free to be honest with them about who you are and what you're like and they you're concerned you'll wig out a roommate. They really might be able to work with you on this somehow.
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Post by rebl_rn »

DaleWisely wrote:I don't think you'll have any problems with the "Father" thing, especially if you explain your reasons. One thing to remember is that Jesuit institutions, are, for the the most part, fairly liberal and Jesuit conservatives are uncommon.
Just wanted to second Dale's observation on the "Father" thing - I know a priest (not Roman Catholic) who got fired from a Jesuit institution basically because he was "too catholic". And most priests, in my experience (and I'm the daughter of a priest so I know lots of 'em), will not be offended if you do not want to call them "Father".

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Post by Jack »

The Weekenders wrote:Considering the close quarters, I am sorta pessimistic for you Cran, just because people have a hard time being roomies even when they have the same orientation.
I agree. When I was staying in a DC shelter briefly last year, my roomate was a nearly 7 foot tall black guy from an entirely different world from what I came from. We didn't talk much, but I tried. I asked all kinds of questions and tried to make him talk to me, but I don't know why he didn't. He said 5 words at most the entire time. I expect it was because I was white trash, gay, Southern and he couldn't understand my accent. :roll:
For whatever reason, you can call somebody "Dude" or "Dawg" all day long, but callin' a hetero roommate "Girlfriend" might not work.
I try to make it a point to call everybody by their first name, so I don't have to use titles or nicknames and I can treat people as equals better, I feel, but sometimes I will slip up and say "Darlin" when I'm being sarcastic. In southern WV growing up, you learn to say "Honey" or "Baby" after every other word. It's considered a very kind and respectful thing, but to most people outside the culture it seems intrusive, I think.
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Post by DCrom »

I'll chime in on "see if they have a G/L/B group".

I don't know which school you'll be attending, but I'd be surprised if they don't have such an organization, and probably G/L/B dorm options as well.

A few weeks back, we went to a big open-house welcome held by the school my daughter will be attending next year (UC Riverside - probably one of the more conservative UC campuses).

Their G/L/B group was one of the 20 or so groups with tables set up at the entrance - lots of support there, and I recall that you could request a G/L/B dorm if you wanted (along with a couple of honors dorms, and probably a few more I missed).

Ask. The worst they can tell you is "we don't have that" - and you may be pleasantly surprised.
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Post by Walden »

Oh... that kind of straight men. I was thinking Bud Abbot, as opposed to Lou Costello, or Andy Griffith as opposed to Don Knotts.
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Post by Darwin »

Walden wrote:Oh... that kind of straight men. I was thinking Bud Abbot, as opposed to Lou Costello, or Andy Griffith as opposed to Don Knotts.
That was my first thought, too.

Two out of three of my college roommates were gay. It didn't bother me. Of course, this was during a time (early '60s) when Texas was not a particularly good place to be openly gay, so I didn't find out about them right away.

However, the first of them, Charley, turned out to be a bit odd, and that's how I ended up rooming with the second one, Jimmy.

Jimmy and I were very close friends. I visited him in Dallas when he took a semester off to try SMU, he showed me around SMU, took me to see the Dallas Symphony Orchestra, and took me (and my girl friend) to my first (and last) gay bar.

Actually, now that I think about it, he's the one who taught me most of my music theory. He was a music major, so I used to force him to explain all the details of chord structure, scales, etc.

After I did my final exit from college, I eventually ended up in the Army. While I was stationed in Monterey, Jimmy contacted me and said that he had dropped out of school and was hiding out with our (female, single) English teacher, because he didn't want to go back home.

To make a long story short (so rare for me), he came out to Monterey and I helped him join the Army. He went through Basic Training at Ft. Ord, then clerk-typist school, and ended up there as the organist (his college major) at the Post chapel. It never even occurred to me that the Army had a policy against homosexuals. We got together several times in Monterey after that.

However, after I graduated from DLI, I was taking a Greyhound back to Houston for leave, and at the Salinas bus station, Jimmy climbed aboard. It turned out that he had gotten angry at the Post Chaplain (a Colonel, no less), and cussed him out in front of a chapel full of recruits. When he repeatedly refused to apologize (because he was, after all, in the right :P), he was told that he was insane, and was discharged. So, he was on his way home. When we hit El Paso, he had to switch to another bus to go north to Dallas, while I continued on south to Houston.

I only ever saw him one more time. When I came back from Taiwan, he was living in Houston, and we got together for lunch one day when I came to visit my folks from Ft. Hood.

Jimmy definitely had a bit of an effeminate manner. I remember one evening when several of us were on our way to a movie in Austin. He was all bouyant for some reason, and went skipping off down the sidewalk ahead of us. He wasn't exactly tiny, having a good bit of "baby fat", so it looked a tad odd skipping along like that, with big hops.

After I retired, I tried to locate him, but didn't have any luck. When I moved back to Texas at the beginning of the year, I started looking for him again. I finally discovered that he had died in Dallas way back in 1990. He would have been about 48 or 49. That's pretty young, and I'm afraid that AIDS was the cause. He has a couple of brothers, one of whom seems to be in this area. Maybe I'll run him down one of these days and get the details.

By the way, I also served in the Army with an openly gay man, Perry Watkins. This was during my last two years (1980-82), in Ft. Lewis, WA. He was drafted in 1968, during the Vietnam war, and had tried to stay out of the Army by admitting that he was gay. I guess they figured he was lying, so they went ahead and drafted him. After a decade or so, they tried to throw him out. He figured he had too much time invested toward retirement, so he fought it. About three years after I retired, he received a dishonorable discharge. He took it to court, and won--though it took another five years. He retired as a Sergeant First Class, and got retroactive pay.

This was a Combat Aviation battalion, and he was our Personnel Sergeant. I never heard a single complaint about his being gay, but lots of folks complained about his vicious sarcasm. On the other hand, I heard lots of praise for his efficiency. Still, the Army wanted him out. I suspect that the impetus came from up above. I really never understood it. Note that while they were trying to throw him out, he was still getting promoted regularly. Very strange.

You can read about Perry Watkins at http://www.lambda.net/~maximum/watkins.html It's a bit over-the-top (in tone) to me, but has some good factual info.
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Post by Jack »

Thanks for sharing that, Darwin.

Thanks, everybody else, too. :)
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Post by spittin_in_the_wind »

Chuck_Clark wrote:
After forty years of working on civil rights, anti-war and feminist issues, not to mention twenty years of showing dogs, I've made numerous gay friends, some of whom are frankly rather effeminate.
Did you ever see "Best In Show"? Funniest freaking movie I've ever seen!!!!

As far as roommates go, my freshman roommate pissed me off by cleaning out the toaster oven on my bed, and telling the girl next door she could keep her shoes in my closet. The next 3 years I lived off campus...

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Post by cowtime »

spittin_in_the_wind wrote:
Chuck_Clark wrote:
After forty years of working on civil rights, anti-war and feminist issues, not to mention twenty years of showing dogs, I've made numerous gay friends, some of whom are frankly rather effeminate.
Did you ever see "Best In Show"? Funniest freaking movie I've ever seen!!!!

As far as roommates go, my freshman roommate pissed me off by cleaning out the toaster oven on my bed, and telling the girl next door she could keep her shoes in my closet. The next 3 years I lived off campus...

Robin

Anyone who's ever shown dogs can vouch for the authenticity of that movie. I know EVERY one of those characters, heck, I know more than a few of all of them. :P They are so right-on. .... ok, I'll even admit I could see a bit of myself in the couple with the Norfolk. I've got w-a-y too much Skye Terrier "stuff" in my house. :oops:
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Post by Jack »

spittin_in_the_wind wrote:As far as roommates go, my freshman roommate pissed me off by cleaning out the toaster oven on my bed, and telling the girl next door she could keep her shoes in my closet. The next 3 years I lived off campus...
I think I'd like ot live off campus, but even with loans and grants I still don't know how I'm going to afford to live on campus. I guess this is going to be one of those things that I hate but have to do anyway.
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