There is what looks to be a very nice, oldish Siccama system flute on ebay.
This type of flute would be great for sombody who wanted the "honk" of a Pratten, but whose hands are too small to manage the larger holes. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 82890&rd=1
item # 7310382890
Siccama Flute on eBay
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RudallRose
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Interesting that it's a Whitaker. If it's the same Whitaker who marked some flutes as "from Rudall & Rose," I didn't realize he made any Siccama-style models. Could it be a different Whitaker?
The eBay flute looks like a Butler owned by a friend of mine here in the USA.
Here's a photo (not a good one, though) of that flute:
The Butler is in Eb. It's a nice player with interesting key work for a Siccama-style.
The eBay flute looks like a Butler owned by a friend of mine here in the USA.
Here's a photo (not a good one, though) of that flute:
The Butler is in Eb. It's a nice player with interesting key work for a Siccama-style.
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RudallRose
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you are right, Andrew. I reached for my Langwill's copy after I posted the note and read the very same thing. Obviously not the RR man.
I wonder how one came to be known as a "siccama specialist" back then?
And there seemed to be many "experts," judging by the number of makers who turned one out. Even Monzani in NY (presumably the son) made one! I would guess (and just a guess) that Mr. Siccama was doing whatever he could to ensure his model did not disappear.
Even still, a Siccama flute in c.1890! My goodness! So late?
I wonder how one came to be known as a "siccama specialist" back then?
And there seemed to be many "experts," judging by the number of makers who turned one out. Even Monzani in NY (presumably the son) made one! I would guess (and just a guess) that Mr. Siccama was doing whatever he could to ensure his model did not disappear.
Even still, a Siccama flute in c.1890! My goodness! So late?
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RudallRose
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yes, of course, 1865. I shouldn't have implied that he was behind the push long past that date.
But why would "his" system still find an audience as late as 1890?
By the the Boehm-lovers were moving along nicely and few old-system flutes were being used, most I would think by bands rather than serious professionals.
Still, impressive that they were around so long. I'm with Terry McGee, in that therein lies the secret to the "loud" flutes by studying the Siccama flutes. After all, it was Hudson (we presume) who went from one to the other in the form of the Perfected.
Too, Siccama's patent probably expired in c.1870 or so....wasn't it a 25-year thing back then?
Anyway....a testament to his theories to have his flute survive long after him. HOw many, I venture, saw their inventions die much-deserving deaths long before the inventors did!
But why would "his" system still find an audience as late as 1890?
By the the Boehm-lovers were moving along nicely and few old-system flutes were being used, most I would think by bands rather than serious professionals.
Still, impressive that they were around so long. I'm with Terry McGee, in that therein lies the secret to the "loud" flutes by studying the Siccama flutes. After all, it was Hudson (we presume) who went from one to the other in the form of the Perfected.
Too, Siccama's patent probably expired in c.1870 or so....wasn't it a 25-year thing back then?
Anyway....a testament to his theories to have his flute survive long after him. HOw many, I venture, saw their inventions die much-deserving deaths long before the inventors did!
I suspect that it was Hudson all through who was responsible for the various developments.
As an artisan he would have been little known to the public, in spite of his little advertisements. unlike the two players, Pratten and Siccama. Their names were needed for promotion as known to the public, and having pupils and audiences available as customers.
They would have been available to test Hudson's ideas then take the " glory ".
I expect they were both on a commission and so would have been happy over the years to see their names used as much as possible whoever made the flutes.
As an artisan he would have been little known to the public, in spite of his little advertisements. unlike the two players, Pratten and Siccama. Their names were needed for promotion as known to the public, and having pupils and audiences available as customers.
They would have been available to test Hudson's ideas then take the " glory ".
I expect they were both on a commission and so would have been happy over the years to see their names used as much as possible whoever made the flutes.
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RudallRose
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That's a good point, Andrew.
I've often wondered why some of the early Hudson-Pratten flutes had German Silver keywork rather than sterling. My guess is that these were produced for Pratten's students and kept affordable.
Does that make some sense?
I am very much in accord that it was John Hudson who made many of the developmental advances to these flutes. What I find so very odd is how very little is available about the man! For someone so talented and important, one might think we'd see more. Not even Rockstro can pull himself up to mention Hudson by name, but I think that was motivated by his jealousy of the man, considering his association and friendship with Pratten.
I've often wondered why some of the early Hudson-Pratten flutes had German Silver keywork rather than sterling. My guess is that these were produced for Pratten's students and kept affordable.
Does that make some sense?
I am very much in accord that it was John Hudson who made many of the developmental advances to these flutes. What I find so very odd is how very little is available about the man! For someone so talented and important, one might think we'd see more. Not even Rockstro can pull himself up to mention Hudson by name, but I think that was motivated by his jealousy of the man, considering his association and friendship with Pratten.
As the so called early nickel mounted block mounted Hudson stamped flutes are so far removed from any of Hudson's other work, but consistent with the later Boosey & Co flutes I think it likely that those Flutes ARE later Boosey made flutes.
(I was the underbidder on one at Bonhams a fortnight ago. I am jolly glad now to have missed it ! )
Why would they be stamped Hudson ?
Perhaps because Hudson still had his own customers - he a had advertised for them - and may have agreed in his terms of employment that he could make a retail sale ( as a poor man ) if an opportunity presented itself.
He would then have taken the next Boosey with the usual blocks and inferior keys and applied his own stamp and made a useful guinea.
(I was the underbidder on one at Bonhams a fortnight ago. I am jolly glad now to have missed it ! )
Why would they be stamped Hudson ?
Perhaps because Hudson still had his own customers - he a had advertised for them - and may have agreed in his terms of employment that he could make a retail sale ( as a poor man ) if an opportunity presented itself.
He would then have taken the next Boosey with the usual blocks and inferior keys and applied his own stamp and made a useful guinea.
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RudallRose
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I quite understand, Andrew. The flute seems to have sold for a good bit. Was it in that good of a condition? Still, if it's anything like my own #49, I imagine it's an impressive player! I do love mine.
Nevertheless, your theory on Hudson and the off-sales from Boosey is interesting. It would help a great deal if we had some record, some writing that gave us a clue about what really went on. Sadly, none has yet surfaced. Someday, perhaps.
That just leaves us to our own guessing games. Oh well. If the answers were clear, then we'd have nothing to bat about.
Nevertheless, your theory on Hudson and the off-sales from Boosey is interesting. It would help a great deal if we had some record, some writing that gave us a clue about what really went on. Sadly, none has yet surfaced. Someday, perhaps.
That just leaves us to our own guessing games. Oh well. If the answers were clear, then we'd have nothing to bat about.