Why are flutes so expensive? Who Cares.

[andrewK]

Do you make decent flutes, Loren ?
I remember how you described taking 1 hour to finish the holes off. The decent flutes I have seen made took weeks or more of adjustment.
You also described adjusting the holes inside THEN finishing them. Strange, I thaught !

Sorry if I offended the chap who wants the 6 keyed flute. I have just forgotten his name again.
Politeness in Americans I tend to confuse these days with the rare apology for bombing wedding parties or foreign cities full of innocents.

[andrewK]

Do you not like the instruments I have made, Loren ?
I see that Loren's post I was replying to saying I don't make instruments has disappeared !

It is a bit awkward defending oneself against a hostile post only to find it has been removed ! Tricky.

[GaryKelly]

Do you not like the instruments I have made, Loren ?
I see that Loren's post I was replying to saying I don't make instruments has disappeared !

It is a bit awkward defending oneself against a hostile post only to find it has been removed ! Tricky.

No, it's still there back on page 2...

Andrew, perhaps you were typing your last as I was posting my previous.

Never mind, I really shouldn't take seriously the ramblings of one who has yet to make a decent instrument....

As for your sweatshop comment, perhaps you'd like to elaborate?


Loren

[andrewK]

Thank you, Garry. I don't know where I would be without you !
Apology too to Loren for imagining that his knocking of my instrument making had disappeared.
Wishful thinking ?

[David Levine]

Andrew's point is well taken-- a good player will sound like a good player even on a mediocre instrument.
My wife has been listening to my racket for over twenty years. She still can't tell the difference between my playing whether it be on an old Rudall, an Olwell, or the Mighty Hammy -- except that one is louder or softer than the others.
But I can tell the difference between the instruments. So we buy these expensive flutes for what they sound like to us, as players, rather than how they are thought to be heard by listeners.
Perhaps she couldn't tell the difference between a Wilkes and a Seery. I know that I could while playing one or the other. But I wonder if I could hear the difference from twenty feet away, in a crowded pub, or over a too-loud PA system.

[Jayhawk]

David - My wife is exactly the same as yours (well, probably not exactly the same unless she can be in two places at once) - she can't tell the difference between any of the conical flutes I've owned (which isn't many - Seery, Dixon 3 piece, Sweetheart, antique german).

I recorded myself on Audacity this weekend for fun playing Mist Covered Mountains on my Seery and my Sweetheart rosewood - both flutes are played frequently. As a player, it feels different to play these two flutes, and they sound different to me when I play them. However, the sound file was essentially identical. Good or bad, both flutes when recorded sound like Me.

Now the question is, can I get a refund for myself?

Eric

[Loren]

So, Loren, what's this Part I stuff? Is Part A going to be your answer?

Well, originally I was going to address a number of the issues that play into the cost of making an instrument (cost of tools, cost of time spent maintaining tools and equipment, cost of time spent procuring supplies, cost of specialized training, such as silversmithing and machine tooling classes etc.), one part at a time, because I thought it might help clarify things a bit, and I thought many might find it interesting. However at this point, I see that ignorance is preferred, if not bliss, for the majority of folks here, so at this point I'm sorry I wasted the time starting this thread. But then I just realized that I often feel that way about posting here, I should have quit bothering about the time folks started arguing with Terry McGee a few weeks back. Honestly, it's no wonder more makers don't bother posting here: It seems all of the people who don't make instruments for a living know more than those of us who do :roll:

I'm over it.

Loren

[Jayhawk]

Loren - Are you saying I was wrong in the number, or species, of woodpeckers needed to make a flute?

Eric

[Byron]

Hey Loren,

Sorry your abandoning the topic.

I felt most posters agreed with the idea that Irish flutes weren't that expensive. For me, not knowing the construction aspects, the conclusion was based on intrinsic value. Anything that can make such beautiful sound should be priceless.

I for one would sit quietly and learn the makers point of view if you would continue.

Byron

[GaryKelly]

Well, originally I was going to address a number of the issues that play into the cost of making an instrument (cost of tools, cost of time spent maintaining tools and equipment, cost of time spent procuring supplies, cost of specialized training, such as silversmithing and machine tooling classes etc.), one part at a time, because I thought it might help clarify things a bit, and I thought many might find it interesting. However at this point, I see that ignorance is preferred, if not bliss, for the majority of folks here, so at this point I'm sorry I wasted the time starting this thread. But then I just realized that I often feel that way about posting here, I should have quite bothering about the time folks started arguing with Terry McGee a few weeks back. Honestly, it's no wonder more makers don't bother posting here: It seems all of the people who don't make instruments for a living know more than those of us who do :roll:

I'm over it.

Loren

Why would people want to know "how it's made"? D'you know or care how a TV is made? A car? If you see a painting in an art gallery that moves you to purchase it, do you stand there wondering about what types of brush the artist used, how much they cost, or how they mixed their paint, the years spent 'training', the cost of the blank canvass or whether they made the frame themselves or bought it in?

I think this thread would've been much more interesting (to me) if you'd simply told us the process, from blank to finished instrument, and listed the tools etc. And maybe the grand total for the equipment needed to 'start up' in production. And left out the reference to flutes being "expensive" altogether, because it makes you (as a maker) sound as if you're trying to justify something to someone, somewhere.

But spitting the dummy out the pram because we don't have a clue how many tools are needed (or even what their names are) and don't want to show our ignorance (blissful or otherwise) by playing a daft guessing game we can't possibly hope to 'get right' doesn't achieve much. Except you lose the dummy and we're left shrugging our shoulders and thinking "who cares, as long as it sounds good and *someone's* making them and offering them for sale."

The least you can do is tell us the answer and sate the interest you've generated.

[Lambchop]

[quote="Loren I thought it might help clarify things a bit, and I thought many might find it interesting. However at this point, I see that ignorance is preferred, if not bliss, for the majority of folks here,
Loren[/quote]

Umm, no, you're misconstruing us.

Ignorance is not preferred . . . but we're ignorant. We can't answer your question about the tools because we don't know what tools are required.

From my perspective, you could be using trained African wood-boring beetles. To me, that's about as likely as using a lathe. I'm still not entirely clear on how you get the hole in the middle at all, much less get an elliptical or parabolic or whatever it is hole in the middle. I've heard 'reamers," but who knows what you do?

We've been joking because we recognize that we have no idea what is required. We've been joking to fill up the time until you decide to come back and tell us.

So, won't you please tell us?

I was serious about getting the fairies to move back in, even though you took exception to it. I don't know any other way to describe the whatever-it-is required to turn a holey stick into something that can generate music. Just so you know.

[peeplj]

I would also be interested in seeing a summary of the process starting with the wood blands and ending with a playable flute. Although I have some idea of what's involved (mainly from years of hanging around on the woodenflute list), I have only a vague idea in what order the steps actually happen and how long it takes to finish each part.

For instance, you spoke of oil. Do you use linseed oil in the early stages or is it tung or some other oil? Is it applied topically or do you actually soak the wood in the oil after the first turning and shaping?

--James

[Whistlin'Dixie]

wood blands

--James

(James, I'm not laughing at you, just so's you know)

Mary
Having an unaccustomed week off, and filling in a bit of time....

[Jon C.]

From my perspective, you could be using trained African wood-boring beetles. To me, that's about as likely as using a lathe.

You found out my secret of using under-paid African woodboring beetles!

If you really want to know how flutes are made, just visit Terry's site:
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/making.html

But realize, this is just dis-information from the Austrailian Goverment...
The flutes are really made by small grey men with almond eyes from another planet!
Jon

[peeplj]

I think I'm gonna write a tune about this, and call it "Posting Before Coffee."

I've done worse typos, so feel free to chucke in my general direction.

--James

wood blands

--James

(James, I'm not laughing at you, just so's you know)

Mary
Having an unaccustomed week off, and filling in a bit of time....