Oh, those rolls!

[Band Nerd]

I try and try and try, but I never can get a very good roll with my whistles! I'm not a beginner whistle player, but I can't do it! Every once in a while I can, but that is every once in a blue moon. Can anyone give me some pointers? I know the basic concept, but I can't seem to perfect it.

Thanks!

Collin

[chas]

Go to Brother Steve's website and practice the dah-blah-blah method which he discusses.

Whenever possible, cut with the left hand and tap with the right. Beyond that, practice, practice, practice. Left-handed rolls are harder and will come later.

[dubhlinn]

Patience and Practice are everything. Once upon a time you could not play a tune on a whistle but with patience and practice you got there in the end. Rolls are no different - practice them very slooooooowly and then build up the tempo gradually after a while they come easy...patience and practice ( and plenty of listening so you know what a successful roll sounds like..).

Nothing good comes easy..

Slan,
D.

[Jack]

I suck at doing rolls, too.

[Bretton]

The main thing that enabled me to suddenly "get" rolls was Grey Larsen's suggestion to think of them as articulations for three of the same notes, rather than a series of 5 notes.

If you can play three of the same notes in a row, then all you have to do is articulate each one differently:

1st note: tongue, or not...slide into it, whatever
2n note: articulated with a cut
3rd note: articulated with a tap

...with the articulations falling right on the beat. Later on as you get good at doing rolls articulated right on the beat you'll probably develop your own sort of swing to them as you speed them up...although, some people play them very straight even at up tempo...more a matter of personal style I guess, or maybe depending on what suits the tune you're playing.

-Brett

-Brett

[vomitbunny]

Get the feadog stain albums 1 an 2 by Mary Bergin.
Listen to them over and over.
And read the stuff Mr. Grey says then.
Take the advice those other guys gave you.
It'll make sense over time.
I'm really not up to snuff since I got food poisoning last week.
excuse me.

[buddhu]

All good advice above.

I'm still far from confident with rolls, but getting there and starting to use them in more tunes. If you can cut and tap/strike then you'll get the hang of rolls.

You'll be glad you stuck with it. While I don't like over ornamented playing, there are times when you *need* a roll to split up those notes. The song where I do roll sound so much better than when I used to just tongue or use strange ad hoc combinations of tonguing and cutting...

Personally I found Brother Steve's approach the most helpful. That and Windows Media Player's half speed playback facility...

[DarnTootin]

My two favorite activities--whistling and kayaking--and I can't hardly do a roll in neither of 'em.

Sigh.

[Jennie]

My two favorite activities--whistling and kayaking--and I can't hardly do a roll in neither of 'em.
Sigh.

You're not trying to do them both at the same time, are you? I do occasionally, but with a cheapie whistle. I'd hate to have to roll my kayak to fetch a sinking whistle...

Jennie

[The Weekenders]

Here are some ideas, and I hope they help.

Listen to other instruments playing rolls, like accordion, pipes and fiddles to take you out of just the whistle context. Find a tune that you REALLY just have to learn to play and want to sound just like that instrumentalist. I did it with a Bobby Gardiner accordion cd and Fermoy Lasses. Later, I found several fiddle versions that just made me want to be part of the party!!

Once you have the solid sound in your mind, go back and follow the information given by BrotherSteve or spring for the Grey Larsen book, which is worth every cent because he tells you EXACTLY how to achieve rolls, first by learning cuts and strikes. If you do the exercises, by the time you get to his roll chapter, you can already do the necessary fingerings. Its a clever approach. Whereas Steve teaches you on the roll itself, and the DABLABLA method, Larsen preps you into it. They are both valid and useful ways. I learned from the BSteve method and only recently purchased the Larsen book, somewhat out of curiosity and also to get the master's soloes. I really think that Larsen spent many, many hours pondering how to best teach things and there are many extras in the book that Steve could not practically cover in a website, even though he is well aware of the things that Larsen describes.

BSteve is the best free way to learn. With the Larsen, there are many more recorded examples because he was able to do that in a for-profit project. he handles every contingency, like getting from various scale notes to others and achieving the cuts etc.

One caveat is that he differs on which finger to use for the cuts from BSteve and others. Now, the way I see it, if you can learn EITHER and get good at it, you will have the ability to change later (but you will spend some time re-training). I think Larsen is in the minority with his finger-above system, but I have to say that it works for me okay even though I was trained the more popular way. I have some lingering doubts with his system which are too complicated to explain here about certain fingering combos with the cuts.

The problem I had with rolls, once I UNDERSTOOD what they were exactly, was usually with the lower finger "tap" or "strike" or whatever lingo you use. And usually, it was with either of my third fingers, which are anatomically slower than your index and middle because they are tied to the pinky by tendons. I experimented with distance from the hole, not always covering the entire hole etc etc. By experimentation, you find something that works, even if you eventually change, which I did. At first, I was tapping very lightly to gain control of the lift of that tap finger. Now I can hit it more vigorously, because the finger is trained. Remember that this is like a finger gymnastic exercise, that will only work with training and time, combined with determination to get it and a musical model in mind of how it should sound.

Good luck!!

[Wombat]

One caveat is that he differs on which finger to use for the cuts from BSteve and others. Now, the way I see it, if you can learn EITHER and get good at it, you will have the ability to change later (but you will spend some time re-training). I think Larsen is in the minority with his finger-above system, but I have to say that it works for me okay even though I was trained the more popular way. I have some lingering doubts with his system which are too complicated to explain here about certain fingering combos with the cuts.

I'd have to check to be certain but I think the only reason Larsen gives for his fingering method is that it is the only way to get a consistently good roll on flute. If you don't play flute that isn't an issue. I much prefer to maximise the opportunity to cut with the left and tap with the right hand and nothing Larsen says has convinced me that that is a bad idea.

[Cynth]

I think another factor in Larsen's choice of the note used for cutting is that the closer the cut note is to the note played, the more quickly the sound can be made, the response is quicker. I know he does mention this being critical for the flute and so perhaps the response time isn't an issue for the whistle---I didn't go check my book. I have not gotten to rolls, so I may end up doing something differently then if I have problems.

[The Weekenders]

Well,like I said, you can learn either way. I think there are some hand balance issues that favor the other approach for whistles but I felt like it would be too complicated to get into it.

[buddhu]

...Find a tune that you REALLY just have to learn to play and want to sound just like that instrumentalist. I did it with a Bobby Gardiner accordion cd and Fermoy Lasses...

Fermoy Lasses. Great tune (The Dubs open with it!). I'm still trying to get that one right.

Bro Steve's system totally works for beginnners.

[Band Nerd]

Thanks for the help, everybody!

Collin