Why are flutes so expensive? Who Cares.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:49 pm

Answer: They are not, so quit yer bitchin'!

Okay maybe not the answer some folks were looking for. Well, the cost of wooden flutes comes up fairly often here, so I thought I'd post a little educational trivia question of sorts, for those who don't have an inside look at the process, which may clarify things a bit. Here's the question:

How many tools does it take to make a 5 piece keyless flute?

Take your best guess and feel free to list the tools you are counting ( hey, if you're really feeling confident, list the prices for each tool). Here's a hint: When we talk tools, we mean everything that one needs to complete the job - if oiling the flute is part of the process, then count oil as one tool. If the job of making a particular flute requires a custom made tool, then you must list all of the tools needed to make that custom tool.

I'll ask flute makers, and andrew :roll: , to refrain from answering just yet, don't want to spoil the fun for everyone else, and I imagine it'll be fun to compare notes, and the number of tools each of us use, after the non-makers have taken their best guesses.

Have fun kids.

Loren

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:59 pm

Ok, I'm gonna take a shot, but I know enough to know I'm probably leaving essential things out:

You have to have the wood blanks, and you have to have a place to season them.

You need a lathe to turn them on, and you'll need to make a reamer to turn them with out of an old saw blade or something, as I don't think reamers in the proper sizes are commercially available.

You'll need saws to cut the blanks into sections, micrometers and measuring tools, the tools to shape the blanks on the lathe, and a drill press to drill the finger holes and the embouchure.

You'll also need needle files for shaping and undercutting, and probably some sort of dremel or dentist's drill for the embouchure work.

You'll need cork or thread for the tenon, and sandpaper--lots of sandpaper of various grades. You'll also need a cork for the headjoint.

You'll need oil, as Loren mentioned, and a way to apply it.

You'll also need plans to work from, and you'll have to have all your ducks in a row as to just how to use all this stuff together to make a flute.

You'll need a tuner, as well, and a probably an X-acto knife set as well.

--James

headwizer · Post by **headwizer** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:19 pm

Would it be possible to injection-mold delrin flutes? If so, that should bring down costs considerably - after the initial cost of making the mold, that is.

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:29 pm

Injection molding was discussed in anoter thread and the consensus was the cost of making the mold is too great to be viable.

Back on topic I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that it takes about a dozen tools with total cost around $15,000.

Can I move onto the Showcase Showdown, Bob?

Cheers,
Aaron

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:58 pm

Loren wrote: How many tools does it take to make a 5 piece keyless flute?

That absolutely doesn't matter. Granted, it's a lot of stuff, but it's not what matters.

I've used lathes and reamers, drills and sandpaper, and passably well at that, but all you'd get from me is a stick with holes in it. Even with practice, if I was able to produce a really nice looking stick, it would still just be a stick.

It's the ability to make it able to sing that's the hard part--getting the fairies to move back in.

That's what you pay for, not the stick.

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:04 pm

Hmm. Well a lathe obviously perhaps two one to rough out one to finish. Drill press for the holes. Collets to support the internal bore, reamers these need to be hand made so throw in the metal working and finishing gear for that. If the keys are block mounted then a milling machine would be handy. Wheels etc for polishing and final finish. The keys need to be forged so throw in most of a silversmiths gear for that. You then I suppose have to voice it so some sound gear to measure pitch accurately would be handy. But none of these are any use at all if you don't have many years experience. And talking about years you will have to lay up your wood to season and rest it between processes.
All of which makes $3000.00 or there abouts cheap as chips.
I know you said keyless but I like keys!

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:55 pm

I'm responding off the top of my head without having looked at any of the other responses.

1 lathe with tail stock
5 pieces of wood (if oil is a tool, so is the wood)
band saw

1 tool to rough turn the outside (would probably work for final turning)
up to 5 drill/rifle bits to rough bore the inside

5 reamers/drill bits to bore the inside
grinder/abrasive wheel to make the reamers and maintain the reamers and bits
up to 5 mandrels for fixturing for final outside turning
up to 9 drill bits for finger/embouchure/foot holes
drill press
vise, possibly a fixture for each piece that needs to be drilled (4)
dremel tool or equivalent and a few tools for shaping of the embouchure and undercutting finger holes

telescoping tubing for tuning slide
rings (about 4)
probably another tool for turning the rings
cork and adhesive for lapping
matte cutter for cork
cork for headpiece

various files, polishing grit, and sandpaper, stuff for oiling
maybe something special for shaping the crown

Let's make it a round 60

vomitbunny · Post by **vomitbunny** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:05 pm

Big hollow stick with seven to nine holes. They probably grow that way half the time. I never thought of it that way till now. I'm cancelling my orders.
Man I feel like such a tool.

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:59 pm

vomitbunny wrote:Big hollow stick with seven to nine holes. They probably grow that way half the time. .

Woodpeckers, Bun. Just follow the woodpeckers.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:35 am

I would start with a gun drill (hollow drill) then move to a boring bar, and for a conical bore I would use an off set boring bar. The tone holes with a drill press. The last hole I would do by hand and not share the technique.

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:50 am

What are you suggesting, Loren, that a maker has to re-invest in all new tools every time he makes a flute, and that therefore the cost of tooling is a major contributor to the cost of every flute a maker produces?

As Peggy says "That absolutely doesn't matter. Granted, it's a lot of stuff, but it's not what matters."

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:55 am

Obviously what matters is the size and health of the woodpeckers the maker keeps at hand. Pileated for bore, redheaded for embouchure and some tone holes, and downy for the smaller tone holes.

Toss in one wild bore to rub against and polish the outside of the flute and you're set.

So the answer is 4.

Eric

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:48 am

But why does a fully keyed Seery go for maybe half the price of a fully keyed Grinter or Wilkes?

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:51 am

Henke wrote:But why does a fully keyed Seery go for maybe half the price of a fully keyed Grinter or Wilkes?

The tools! Consider the tools!

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:38 am

Jayhawk wrote:Obviously what matters is the size and health of the woodpeckers the maker keeps at hand. Pileated for bore, redheaded for embouchure and some tone holes, and downy for the smaller tone holes.

Toss in one wild bore to rub against and polish the outside of the flute and you're set.

So the answer is 4.

Eric

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Why are flutes so expensive? Who Cares.

Why are flutes so expensive? Who Cares.

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