On Performance Criticism

[andrewK]

My dictionaries do not fit with your idea of audience, but they are only American and English. I must get an Australian one, if such things exist, for emergency use.

[talasiga]

.......
I was in the Rocks some years ago - the old maritime historic quarter of Sydney and a visiting Irish band was playing in a pub. I was with some friends I had been busking with and I had gone in with them as they wanted a drink. Well one of the Irish band members gets out this low D whistle and plays the most haunting air BUT, of course, you could barely hear it for all the noise and hubabub in the pub. He looked so miffed after he finsihed the piece. What can I say? Its a free country and the people in the pub are entitled to be what they want to be. Its not my type of audience though.

When we talk of the audience here we are meaning potential audience. That is naturally implied. It is very probable that the pub owners engaged this Irish band from the other side of the globe because they thought that there was a potential audience for the band in the pub (along with increased custom from those who would have come especially to see the band). The whistle player seemed obviously miffed because he put his heart and soul into that piece and it fell on deaf hears mostly.

All I am saying is I am not able to play folk flute or other ethnic flute type music in such environments and I have praised those who can (please see page one).

[Nanohedron]

The whistle player seemed obviously miffed because he put his heart and soul into that piece and it fell on deaf hears mostly.

That's playing in pubs. You never know how the patrons will engage the performance on a given night. Even though there may be a raised stage and stage lights to call added attention to the act, I think it's important to remember that part of the job description is to be ready to be consigned to the role of "auditory wallpaper", especially if you're playing traditional musics amplified to an easy-on-the-ears level. Some nights all the patrons are huddled in their groups furiously solving the world's problems. Let the music aid in that, then! I consider that to be doing my job, too. The only "ITM-ish" acts I've ever seen where attention is invariably riveted to the performance involve extremely high-energy, brash, very loudly amplified sets, usually rebel, drinking or bawdy songs, rock influenced, and many guitars aren't unusual. Some of these folks are even highly skilled. But you can't help but pay attention because of the auditory assault, and it's too loud to have a decent conversation without shouting. I don't like bludgeoning the listener. It's not all about me. If it is, maybe I need to reassess why I'm there.

On the other hand, some audiences honestly seem to like it loud and gritty. I just get irritated. Something for everybody, I suppose.



(edited to corral a stray "o")

[Cathy Wilde]

Alas, but ... our band has observed that peoples' enjoyment of our performances seems to increase proportionally with levels of intoxication (theirs, and heck, maybe ours too).

The drunks love us. Ergo, we love the drunks.

Guess we're just kinda easy that way.

[Nanohedron]

Alas, but ... our band has observed that peoples' enjoyment of our performances seems to increase proportionally with levels of intoxication (theirs, and heck, maybe ours too).

The drunks love us. Ergo, we love the drunks.

Guess we're just kinda easy that way.

When someone stops over to give a kind word, sometimes I'll say, "Have another drink. We'll sound even better!"

[andrewK]

A performance in a folk or other club in a pub is listened to. A casual performance may be wallpaper or casually listened to, at least in the UK.
That's not too difficult. is it ?

[Nanohedron]

A performance in a folk or other club in a pub is listened to. A casual performance may be wallpaper or casually listened to, at least in the UK.
That's not too difficult. is it ?

No. It occurs to me that we Yanks may tend toward a more cavalier attitude about pub performances. Some people don't seem to feel obligated to extend their full attention to an act, it being just part of the gestalt of the moment, even though it's not a casual performance (such as playing in a park for one's pleasure for example, if I got your drift correctly). It's not a problem for me. But I've said as much already in this thread, just in more words.

[andrewK]

Do you not distinguish Submicrohedron,in your Great Country between clubs in pubs, ( for which here in th UK a charge would normally be made )and a casual performance arranged perhaps by the management or occuring spontaneously ?

[djm]

Clubs don't exist in most places here in the same way. In areas that had/have restrictive drinking laws, like closing at 10 pm, we used to have clubs where you would pay a nominal membership fee and drink all night. There aren't too many places like that left, so the need for clubs has mostly vanished. Pubs/bars stay open late into the night now.

djm

[Nanohedron]

Do you not distinguish Submicrohedron,in your Great Country between clubs in pubs, ( for which here in th UK a charge would normally be made )and a casual performance arranged perhaps by the management or occuring spontaneously ?

Aha. A confusion has been cleared up. Here, not only can "club" and "pub" be interchangeable terms (and never mind the more ubiquitous "bar"; such usage is more an issue of the ownership hoping to set the tone for the dump in question, although in general a so-called "club" is often enough a place frequented by people who like to look as if they have means if not taste), clubs IN pubs is a strange idea Stateside, or at least in the Midwest. You're more likely to find "rooms" "lounges", or additional "bars" where special performances are held. Sometimes a cover charge is involved. I remember one time in the Titanic Lounge at Kieran's Pub where a notable (to me) fluteplayer and excellent accompanist were playing while a wedding party were dragging their feet -they should have been gone already- and only one person among them paid attention, having a clue that something remarkable was happening right there before him. The rest: poor things. I mentioned it to the fluteplayer, and he said, "Ah, it's just a bar, anyway. That's how it goes, y'know?"

You'd seldom find something spontaneous happening. Most bars would kick the musician out! What can I say...

[Nanohedron]

Clubs don't exist in most places here in the same way. In areas that had/have restrictive drinking laws, like closing at 10 pm, we used to have clubs where you would pay a nominal membership fee and drink all night. There aren't too many places like that left, so the need for clubs has mostly vanished. Pubs/bars stay open late into the night now.

djm

In those areas of the US that are "dry counties", say (particularly in the South), clubs are another matter, and much like what djm refers to. You can legally only drink socially outside of people's homes in those places, and must pay to have membership. If you're not a member, you can get in only as someone's guest. You bring your own poison, and the bar provides "setups", or mixes, ice and glasses (usually plastic cups). There's often canned music, and frequently a dance floor with a disco ball, too.

[andrewK]

Ah !
If it were so difficult to pop out and have a drink here I would be tempted to pop off and invade somewhere else ! As Mr Bush advises.
A folk or jazz or whatever club held in a pub here tends to be in a separate room with a cover charge, but not always. There are music nights.

[Nanohedron]

If it were so difficult to pop out and have a drink here I would be tempted to pop off and invade somewhere else !

Believe me, certain parts of Texas came as a bit of a culture shock to me some years back. Don't know how much has changed since then, me being a city mouse and free to avoid such restrictions.

[BoneQuint]

The whistle player seemed obviously miffed because he put his heart and soul into that piece and it fell on deaf hears mostly.

This seems quite a strange attitude for me. If I play something well, I enjoy it, whether I'm practicing by myself or playing for an audience. Playing just so other people will acknowledge how brilliantly you've played seems like a backwards way to go about it to me. If I think one bit about how people listening will react (and not about the music itself), it's a failure in my book.

The idea of a crowd of people sitting around all facing the "performers" and listening attentively the whole time seems forced and artificial to me, a western "art music" construct. I often play with some pals in a pub, just show up and ask if we can play. I like being just a bit of the background, although occasionally people come over and talk or listen a bit, and that's great. Those who want to listen will, and those who don't, I have no need for them to acknowledge me at all. Maybe the live music will perk up their conversations or whatever they're engaged in, which is great -- they don't have to be "listening" for that to happen.

[talasiga]

The whistle player seemed obviously miffed because he put his heart and soul into that piece and it fell on deaf hears mostly.

This seems quite a strange attitude for me. If I play something well, I enjoy it, whether I'm practicing by myself or playing for an audience. Playing just so other people will acknowledge how brilliantly you've played seems like a backwards way to go about it to me. If I think one bit about how people listening will react (and not about the music itself), it's a failure in my book.

The idea of a crowd of people sitting around all facing the "performers" and listening attentively the whole time seems forced and artificial to me, a western "art music" construct. I often play with some pals in a pub, just show up and ask if we can play. I like being just a bit of the background, although occasionally people come over and talk or listen a bit, and that's great. Those who want to listen will, and those who don't, I have no need for them to acknowledge me at all. Maybe the live music will perk up their conversations or whatever they're engaged in, which is great -- they don't have to be "listening" for that to happen.

Listen Baby,
Nobody's talkin about a stiff upper lip formal concert here.
There is a difference between an informal "lounge" audience as intimated in your post and a raucus loud one which fairly drowns out the music.

If you do not interact with a live audience at any level (or at some level) you may as well be a studio muso. See?