Poor finish on a whistle

[springrobin]

I'm having reservations about a whistle I received for Christmas and would like to know if others are experiencing the same thing and have been reluctant to do anything about it. The whistle in question is purpleheart and arrived new and in need of fine sanding and polishing. There is roughness of the fipple plug and the tip of the mouthpiece (which has unfinished endgrain) when I'm playing and the bore snags fibers from the swab when oiling or drying. Can't get a finger inside to know how smooth the bore is, but as the grain hasn't been well-polished on the outside, it could follow that the inside is the same.

As for the way the whistle plays, others besides me have commented that it is unpleasantly hard to blow and the tone obtained isn't worth the effort. I have oiled it several times but that didn't solve the problem.

The local supplier said that complaints about this maker's whistles are rare and I don't to injure a maker's reputation by giving names at this point. On the other hand, another Chiffer told me that rough finish is typical of this maker's whistles (and also where to I could obtain the 8 grades of sanding cloth to fix it) so now I'm wondering if this is a "king has no clothes" situation and most folks are so happy to have the waiting over that they won't complain about the fact that the whistle they received is less than stellar. I also wonder if whistles sold in the maker's home country have a better finish than those sent to the U.S.?

When I asked about a remedy the supplier said: "Yeah, the fipple plug should not be rough enough to distract you. Naturally it's not gonna be like glass or anything, but I don't see why you should need to sand it. ...
I'm afraid, short of sending it back to ****** for sanding, there's
little we can do. Of course you take it's life in your own hands by
sanding, yourself - but otherwise you could be without it for weeks, and
risk further damage in shipping. With every batch we further discuss the
instrument with the maker. Thank you for all your input. Let me know if
there's anything else we can do." THAT was encouraging.

Maybe the lesson to be learned here is that I should not have gone with anyone other than the great local whistle makers who make the effort to keep themselves visible and informed as to what their customers expect and don't insulate themselves behind their foreign distributors.

Any thoughts?

[JessieK]

The whistles by this maker vary. I have played three of them. I own one now, and it is my favorite whistle. It's not a case of the Emperor's new clothes, because mine is fantastic. Seriously, sand it yourself. That part is no big deal. The sanding cloth I recommended is so fine that it's for jewelers. Hardware stores don't carry it. You will nto hurt it. As for it not playing well, it's probably because of the plug. Each of the three I played had a different plug and it affected the highest notes. I find also that it takes a minute or so of playing (each time) before the lowest notes are strong. Warmed up, mine sings like no other whistle I have encountered, similarly to the sound clip on the dealer's site.

[chas]

I agree, you can certainly polish it up yourself (I've done this), but, honestly, if you don't like the way it plays, send it back to the maker to be tweaked. A couple of weeks without a whistle you don't particularly like is nothing compared to the years of joy it will give you once it's fixed up. I've sent whistles back to at least three makers for specific adjustments, and my experience has been that they're always eager to please.

[Loren]

"When I asked about a remedy the supplier said: "Yeah, the fipple plug should not be rough enough to distract you. Naturally it's not gonna be like glass or anything, but I don't see why you should need to sand it. ..."

Well, that's a crock - the plugs on the instruments (recorders) we send out ARE as smooth as glass, they look and feel that way, and there's no reason whistle fipples shouldn't be the same.

"Maybe the lesson to be learned here is that I should not have gone with anyone other than the great local whistle makers who make the effort to keep themselves visible and informed as to what their customers expect and don't insulate themselves behind their foreign distributors. "

Yeah, well, there is that.

Sad story to hear

Loren

[KDMARTINKY]

When I have received a whistle that has some imperfections. I do the old "Pro" and "Con" list of refinishing it myself. What are the "Pros": No waiting time if I do it my self instead of sending it back to the maker; gaining some experience on refinishing, etc. But the biggest "con" which always finds it way on my list is: If I screw it up, its my fault and not the makers. Which means $$$$ that I am out on a instrument that is now ready for the scrap yard.

So ask yourself before you start sanding, how confident are you that you can make the corrections? If you have any doubt send it back and let the professional work his/her magic.

The scenerio you described has happend to me with a couple of times with two different makers and they are always willing to make things right.

Good Luck on your decision

[Thomas-Hastay]

I say send it back to the supplier for an exchange. Even if you solve the problem, you will still be disappointed with your instrument. It is obviously made from an inferior wood blank and you have a right to have it replaced.

[brewerpaul]

Couple of comments...
First of all, Purpleheart is a very grainy, stringy wood on which it is sometimes difficult to get a really smooth finish. Usually, you can see a small amount of roughness. Harder, less stringy woods come off the lathe in either fine dust or smooth ribbons and leave a surface which requires very little sanding. Some others like Purpleheart, Bocote, Maple, etc form a sort of lion's mane of wood as the lathe tool progresses across the piece as fibres of the wood are lifted up. Having a very sharp lathe tool helps, but does not totally eliminate the problem. You end up with a surface which has small grooves where these fibres lifted up. They can certainly be sanded to a degree, but depending on the wall thickness of the whistle you may have to sand it so much that it starts to affect the tuning of the whistle. Filling the wood grain is an option to a degree too.Still, these woods are so pretty that it's a bit of a tradeoff: an unusual, beautiful looking whistle which may still retain a small bit of wood grain feeling. This should NOT be excessive though.
Sanding of the fipple plug is certainly easy ( I just put a sanding drum on my lathe and sand the plug with 2 grades of sandpaper, plus one very fine one by hand).
Voicing is a whole other thing-- the whistle SHOULD play very well. It may or may not be to your particular taste, but it should play at least two full octaves easily and accurately. If it doesn't, it should go back to the maker. This is not a do-it-yourself operation. The maker deserves the chance to make his/her handiwork satisfactory

[billw]

If the bore is rough, the sound is never going to be good until that's corrected, and you are not going to be able to correct it yourself without special tools. I know from experience that what Brewer Paul says about purpleheart is true, because I make escrima sticks from the stuff, and have to use a paste filler made up of dust and glue to get the surface glass-smooth. So I'd be very suspicious of the inner bore smoothness, too, and that's not just cosmetic - it affects the sound directly.

I don't know who this whistlemaker is, and don't want to know, but I would submit that if the quality is so variable that one person thinks the whistle they received is wonderful, and another thinks that his/hers sucks, then that just might be someone to stay away from until they correct their QC problems.

What about guarantees? As a maker, I guarantee my whistles 100 percent, all of your money back including shipping, if you don't like them for ANY reason. Does this maker do likewise? If so, take advantage of it to request a replacement, at least. Maybe your rrplacement whistle will be one of the wonderful ones.

My 2p
Bill Whedon

[Guest]

I'm having reservations about a whistle I received for Christmas and would like to know if others are experiencing the same thing and have been reluctant to do anything about it.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, I do but I would not post them here.

Instead I will offer to you a bit of old and well tested advice. If you want to play well on the TW then you should get one that can play well.

Try a Feadog or Generation for 7 bucks - can't be that bad since ever decent whistle player I ever heard in my entire life - 5 decades now and still counting - played either of these or something similar.

Hope that helps

[Loren]

It is obviously made from an inferior wood blank and you have a right to have it replaced.

How on earth could you possibly know that without having a look at the instrument in question, hmm??? :roll:

Loren

[Loren]

Paul wrote: "Harder, less stringy woods come off the lathe in either fine dust or smooth ribbons and leave a surface which requires very little sanding. Some others like Purpleheart, Bocote, Maple, etc form a sort of lion's mane of wood as the lathe tool progresses across the piece as fibres of the wood are lifted up. Having a very sharp lathe tool helps, but does not totally eliminate the problem. You end up with a surface which has small grooves where these fibres lifted up."

Can't entirely agree with you here Paul: We make plenty of Maple instruments, and my experience has been that by using a cutter of the proper shape, along with the a slow enough feed rate on the lathe, maple and a number of the other more difficult woods can finish turn with quite a smooth surface, although it's never gonna be nearly glass like off the lathe, like boxwood.

"They can certainly be sanded to a degree, but depending on the wall thickness of the whistle you may have to sand it so much that it starts to affect the tuning of the whistle."

We turn out maple instruments a fair amount more oversized than Box, Grenadilla, etc., to allow for the additional sanding. Ditto for imitation Ivory rings and sleeves, because that stuff sands away much quicker than real ivory, or even the harder woods.

"Sanding of the fipple plug is certainly easy ( I just put a sanding drum on my lathe and sand the plug with 2 grades of sandpaper, plus one very fine one by hand)."

We've got nothing on ya there , haven't found a better way yet.

"Voicing is a whole other thing-- the whistle SHOULD play very well. It may or may not be to your particular taste, but it should play at least two full octaves easily and accurately. If it doesn't, it should go back to the maker. This is not a do-it-yourself operation. The maker deserves the chance to make his/her handiwork satisfactory"

Agreed, of course.

Loren

[Loren]

Bill W. wrote:

" I know from experience that what Brewer Paul says about purpleheart is true, because I make escrima sticks from the stuff"

Escrima sticks out of Purple heart Bill? I don't even think Remy Preses would go for that. Next you'll be telling us you're making a batch of Delrin Kris

Seriously, you obviously couldn't do any real practice (hitting stick to stick) with those things, unless someone wants to risk getting a chunk of snapped off wood in the eye, even if it might be a really pretty piece of wood in the eye.

If we're sticking with....er, sticks, then you should know it's Fire Hardened Rattan for training, Ironwood for solo practice (carenza etc.) as well those (mostly) non-lethal challenge matches. Floro Villabrille would be proud.

So fess up Bill, who's your Guro? Used to be, years ago, that it was easy to keep track of who was teaching Filipino Martial Arts around the county, but it's gotten so pupular that I quit trying to even keep up with all the newly "certified" instructs from each system.

Loren

[brewerpaul]

[quote="Loren
Can't entirely agree with you here Paul: We make plenty of Maple instruments, and my experience has been that by using a cutter of the proper shape, along with the a slow enough feed rate on the lathe, maple and a number of the other more difficult woods can finish turn with quite a smooth surface, although it's never gonna be nearly glass like off the lathe, like boxwood.

"Loren[/quote]

I swear, I'm comin' out to visit some day, Loren!
Actually, I've learned some tricks with Maple etc. I take some thicker cuts to bring the wood down near final OD, then make smaller and smaller cuts. I actually do get down to a pretty smooth finish this way. Time consuming, but worth it.
Do you make your own cutters at VonH? I use 1/4" carbide cutters on my lathe-- the imported ones work pretty well and are cheap enough to simply discard when they get dull (yes folks, wood WILL dull even a carbide cutting tool!).

[Loren]

[quote="Loren
Can't entirely agree with you here Paul: We make plenty of Maple instruments, and my experience has been that by using a cutter of the proper shape, along with the a slow enough feed rate on the lathe, maple and a number of the other more difficult woods can finish turn with quite a smooth surface, although it's never gonna be nearly glass like off the lathe, like boxwood.

"Loren

Paul wrote:

"I swear, I'm comin' out to visit some day, Loren!"

Heh heh, you're missing all the fun: Adriana Breukink was here visiting the shop last week, and the (Sr.) Mollenhauers were here a month or so before. I never know who's going to show up next. Good thing I'm not a real recorder guy, otherwise I'd be too freaked out to work, I mean imagine if Chris Abell showed up and was standing over your shoulder watching you work?

Anyway, the invitation to visit stands, but don't wait too long, I won't be here forever ya know

"Actually, I've learned some tricks with Maple etc. I take some thicker cuts to bring the wood down near final OD, then make smaller and smaller cuts. I actually do get down to a pretty smooth finish this way. Time consuming, but worth it."

Yes, good plan of attack, I tend to do the same, regardless of the wood type because it cuts down on sanding time, but more important it's one thing that helps avoid chip/tear out near the ends.That plus the other factors I mentioned can make a significant difference. Does your Atlas have a lead screw and adjustable feed rates?

"Do you make your own cutters at VonH?"

Oh yeah, in a dizzying assortment of shapes and sizes, we've got a good dozen different hand made cutters of various configurations mounted up in tool holders (mostly Aloris quick change) at a given time, but I often have to go to the storage drawer for something different anyway. We do occasionally use a carbide insert type commercial cutter, but usually just for the odd boring bar job. The custom cutting tools are cool, but wait till you see the custom Multi-fluted reamers with built in socket cutters

"I use 1/4" carbide cutters on my lathe-- the imported ones work pretty well and are cheap enough to simply discard when they get dull (yes folks, wood WILL dull even a carbide cutting tool!)"

Good stuff, no doubt, and much less time spent at the grinding wheel! It is amazing how much faster some woods will blunt your cutting tools isn't it? Grenadilla being right up there at the top of the list - hand carving the ramp/window on grenadilla instruments insures a day spent as much at the sharpening stone as working on the headjoints :roll:

Loren

[Goldie]

Heh heh, you're missing all the fun: Adriana Breukink was here visiting the shop last week, and the (Sr.) Mollenhauers were here a month or so before. Loren

Was Joe with the Mollenhauers? He is also a really nice guy and funny, too. I hope to see them again next month.

Colin